Ancient Celts in Oceania?

Originally posted by Arthur-Robin Sorry for off topic and the mess i somehow have got myself in but i have to answer that I never just copy , i always post my own comments (in fact i said the same on the other forum about people replying to me just posting links to others sites without any of their own thoughts/etc). Unless you mean my habit of listing evidences. & I don't abandon forums because of being asked for scientific references (and i would dispute about "scientific"), i abandon forums because of constant negatives, everyone disagreeing with me, challenging, personal-like attacks, untruth accusations, being ignored when i do post evidences/proof, etc. Sorry if i have said anything that comes across wrong about you, i not implying you are bad in anyway was just defending myself. Your contributions/thoughts/ideas are no less valid/equal/interesting to forum or me than mine. I don't see/understand tho what point/evidence/source specifically you want to know more comment/references/discuss/debate on? I have to accept/admit that i can't provide any much other possible evidences for Celt NZ connections without alot more work (and it isn't a theory of mine anyway and that there may well be none as you say). (Note tho that I won't be able to do much more until i can get out and get more unpoisoned/unfluoridated water anyway as the fluoride lowers my ability. (You might want to check your water too because Australia fluoridates too.))

No mess, no fuss. Just a clash of the Titans. I'm also sorry if I misinterpreted your post. I understand now that you were putting forward your theory, and fair enough. Although I don't agree with your theory, I'd like to see your future development of it. Cheers.

Originally posted by Arthur-Robin Thank-you Red Clay. Sorry for any wrong on my part. I think i have already answered in the last post tm that i guess we can say it is only thoughts (and some possible evidences) for debate that there may or may not be Celtic pre-Maori connections (and i do not have any (Celt) claim/theory). I (& you) can't substantiate it either way, I have tried to list some possible evidences, if i can get together anymore i will post but it takes alot of time/effort. For non-Celtic preMaori that is definite not just thoughts/theory/claims. Eg look up Kaimanawa "wall/pyramid", Waipua stone pyramids/walls/alignments (Noel Hilliam?), Turehu (Mataroa/Mataora & Nuvarahu/Niwareka), Patupaiarehu, Waitaha (Barry Brailsford), Taranaki inscription (Barry Fell), Awamoko skulls, urukehu "red haired", starwalkers/spiritwalkers, etc etc. Linus Brunner's work on Malayo-Polynesian language roots & Indoeruopean/Semitic. Ptolemy 6th coin found in Bay of Islands. Elsdon Best books. I have also versions of Tower of Babel in about 5 different Polynesia myths. Sorry its abit haphazard and not detailed. re last post that appeared during my writing: I do my best to post best standards/expectations i can but if forum people are going to be so tough/harsh expectations (on some of us not on others) like Historum than some of us will have to leave. Re popularity points i can't deny that i may sometimes post things because i would like to be recognised for my discoveries but it is not like i am selling books etc like others. I don't think i am self-serving, i often try to provide people interesting info that may be of interest to them. I had thought that a forum is where people can present ideas/theses and discuss civilly? I never meant to imply that things aren't open to debate or that i not interested in learning. I just don't like everything always being negatives, personal/impolite/attacking -like and (as happened on historum) people diverting away from actual details to long words about sources and method etc (and on historum they claimed i didn't post any evidences and that others did, when it was actually the reverse). "Its not what we say but how" (wording). "Speak the truth in love". Probably just digging a deeper hole, sorry.

Please don't feel singled out by my post. I'm just attempting to join in discussions/debates on topics of mutual interest, but when a post is simply copied from another source, with no comment by the member, it leaves no room for discussion or debate. Please don't abandon this forum because I've asked for scientific references, I always like to know where the info originated.

You must admit that it appears that some members posts are here for promotion points only, as they leave no room at all for contribution by other members. Unless pushed to do so, I won't name names at this stage.

Don't take this too personally, and it's not an attack, just, I hope, constructive criticism.

Originally posted by toyomotor [QUOTE=red clay] Easeup some Toyomotor.  You can request proof or evidence without seeming to attack.  I for one tend to lean toward AR's theories on the location of Atlantis.  I've seen photos of sites in Au. and NZ that would lend credence to the idea that someone was there before recorded history.    That you don't agree with him doesn't make it "drivel".  At the same time, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  Give AR the time and I think he could provide some.

_______________________________________________________________________
For my education, can you elaborate on the basis for this forum? It was my belief that the forum was a place for discussion of members views on topics of mutual interest, and where sensible debate could take place.

There are members who simply "report" matters that they've found on the internet, with no comment of their own, and there is little if any room for debate or even further comment.

With respect, I must agree with Opuslolas comment about members posting what are in effect, self serving posts to gain promotion points. This does not seem fair to me.

I believe by posting this in the forum, (rather than a PM) other members can also learn what is expected. This is not to be seen as an attack on you or any particular member, simply a requestion for clarification.

forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/
noun
noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora

1. a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.


Regards

Ian

Originally posted by red clay Easeup some Toyomotor.  You can request proof or evidence without seeming to attack.  I for one tend to lean toward AR's theories on the location of Atlantis.  I've seen photos of sites in Au. and NZ that would lend credence to the idea that someone was there before recorded history.    That you don't agree with him doesn't make it "drivel".  At the same time, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  Give AR the time and I think he could provide some.

OK, but can we have some sort of substantiation on some of these claims, or at least a disclaimer that it is the thoughts of the writer, and for debate.

PS. I did say "appears to be drivel"-there's a big difference.

Edited by toyomotor - 28-Jan-2014 at 02:08

i take offense at being said to have posted "laughable" "drivel" "speculation" etc. anyone who has seen my postings on this and other forums over the years if they were honest would not say that. i have always tried to post quality posts unlike many other people. My posts are no more theory than any others here. Many things i post are positive theses while others like this topic i am not certain of so you can call it theory (not drivel) if you wish. (I would point out that many of the orthodox things held today are not scientifically proven and they don't admit it is only theory.) It is not just theory to say that we can only say "maybe" and that we can't say that it is definitely right that there is no possible connections or evidence at all. Sorry for any wrong offense, i'm very peeved at "life"/humanity after a life of mistreatment. It seems like i am always being challenged everytime i post on forums now. I don't think i have even stated a solid "theory" here even, I never said there were or weren't any celt connections. It is all very well challenging or asking what evidence, but not being called laughable, drivel, etc. I just replied to you that we can't be certain that there is no evidence of celtic connections but that it maybe true that there is or isn't any. There is no scientific proof that there weren't any celtic contacts either. Isn't the purpose of forums to objectively consider or look for possible evidence both ways (without being driven away by people)?

So here is what you want: I don't have any positive proof (or even theory) there is or isn't any celtic connections with preMaori NZ, there is just some possible evidences that there could be. The facts on celts i posted about ships etc are historical facts. The similarities between some celt or northern things are real though they may only be seemingly and they may not be due to celt connections.
The Turehu could be Turvasu/Druhayu was just a possibility.
The timeline was compiled from various sources, I can't prove all the dates/voyagers but some of the entries seem to fit with each other and with other historical things.
It is positive fact that there were pre-Maori NZ visitors if not Celtic.
(It is also positive proven thesis that Atlantis is Tiahuanaco/South America and that Polynesia has origins via there, though i can't prove all the Polynesian part without alot of work.)

toyomotor (from historum?)
what evidence do you have that there is not celtic connetions with oceania?
why do i always have to prove every jot and tiddle. i don;t mind providing evidences when i am able but it is not always possible to. If i can't post on forums without having to prove everything then i won't. I always/usually try to provide what evidences i can. I haven't done enough research on this to do it for this, but at the same time i can say that it is right to say "maybe" possible either way. Though i meant/said that what you said maybe/probably right.
The problem i had with historum is not evidence but the "laughable" type personal attacks/discrediting.
I really can't be bothered, i only post on forums because i'm in Hell situation and need a casual interest. Whenever i have gone to the effort to get and write proofs of things it is then just ignored anyway (eg the coricancha picture of atlantis i posted on historum America thread).

celts had towering high-sea-faring ships in time of [julius caesar?], london was a port with hundereds of ships.
brendan, maeldune, o'corra, barinthus, madoc.
"polynesian water bailer of same design as the Norwegian"
Maori dwellings similar to northern long houses.
tikis similar to odin?
uru-kehu "red haired"
(tocharians have celtic connections)
bones found in NZ that don't have Maori "rocker jaw" (though rocker jaw also found in scandinavia?)
viking helmet found at port moresby australia.
chinese maps of australia (incl nz) , chinese say they got it from norse/vikings.
Icelandic references to 'solar perusta' could be australia in opinion of some (though i think it could be Peru?)
Captain Cook wrote of Polynesians resembling northern europeans.
celts & maoris have cult of the head.
plaid/tratan found in NZ/Maori similar to celtic/tocharian plaid/tartan (though one in Maori story sounds abit like Joseph's coat of many colours).
(Hoeh's connections of picts and americans and thracians?)
megaliths.
similar spirals/knotwork

Probably it is true that not any/much celtic connections, but is rather ancient connections, but you can't just say it is definitely none.

Originally posted by Arthur-Robin Originally posted by opuslola "(AE is much better than Historum. What a awful time I had from people there when I tried posting there!) " That is a true statement! Some of those guys are amazingly smart, and mostly "smart asses!" LOL Suffice it to say, I did not last long there! But I did have some lively discourses! Smile Ron It was not because they are smart but because they are arrogant. I did not see many smart people there in my arguments anyway. Anyway sorry for offtopic but had to clarify its not because smart. "love edifies knowledge puffs up." ps toyomotor: It may be right that there is not any much connection of Celts with Oceania, but how many times i have heard it said there is "no credible evidence" of such and such or so and so and it has really been the contrary. Celts had huge seaworthy ships in time of [Caesar] and London was a port with hundreds of ships. Brendan visited # of Atlantic islands, other voyagers like O'Corra, Maeldune, Madoc, Barinthus.

It IS right, not maybe!! If you have evidence to the contrary, I stress EVIDENCE, not supposition, please provide it.

This type of speculation really is laughable.

Originally posted by opuslola "(AE is much better than Historum. What a awful time I had from people there when I tried posting there!) " That is a true statement! Some of those guys are amazingly smart, and mostly "smart asses!" LOL Suffice it to say, I did not last long there! But I did have some lively discourses! Smile Ron

It was not because they are smart but because they are arrogant. I did not see many smart people there in my arguments anyway. Anyway sorry for offtopic but had to clarify its not because smart.
"love edifies knowledge puffs up."

ps toyomotor: It may be right that there is not any much connection of Celts with Oceania, but how many times i have heard it said there is "no credible evidence" of such and such or so and so and it has really been the contrary. Celts had huge seaworthy ships in time of [Caesar] and London was a port with hundreds of ships. Brendan visited # of Atlantic islands, other voyagers like O'Corra, Maeldune, Madoc, Barinthus.

Edited by Arthur-Robin - 26-Jan-2014 at 21:22

"(AE is much better than Historum. What a awful time I had from people there when I tried posting there!) "

That is a true statement! Some of those guys are amazingly smart, and mostly "smart asses!" LOL Suffice it to say, I did not last long there! But I did have some lively discourses! Smile

Ron

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri There is also something similar to those mouthless Celtic Statue Menhirs in Oceania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wondjina   In [COLOR=#5a3696">Aboriginal mythology[/COLOR">, the Wondjina (or Wandjina) were [COLOR=#002bb8">cloud[/COLOR"> and [COLOR=#002bb8">rain[/COLOR"> spirits who, during the [COLOR=#002bb8">Dream time[/COLOR">, created or influenced the landscape and its inhabitants.   Common composition is with large upper bodies and heads that show eyes and nose, but typically no mouth. Two explanations have been given for this: they are so powerful they do not require speech<SUP =reference id=cite_ref-4>[COLOR=#5a3696"><SPAN">[</SPAN">5<SPAN">"></SPAN">[/COLOR"> and if they had mouths, the rain would never cease.     Our Strange World!!

They're not Celtic. No one knows for sure precisely who carved the stone heads.
The picture of the heads looks remarkably like Australian Aboriginal rock drawings. And they weren't Celtic either!