QuoteReplyTopic: Kurdish ancestry: what is true, and what isn't? Posted: 12-Jan-2011 at 11:37
Originally posted by Putty19
The Medes simply get their name from the name of the land (Just like the Assyrians, Babylonians, Akkadians, so on), but in 2200 BC there was no such thing as Iranians in this region, and since you like Wikipedia so much, this is what it says about ancient Iranians:
Before that there was no such thing as Iranians in the area or Media, that quote from Herodotus where he calls the Medes "Aryans" is actually from around 450 BC, NOT 2200 BC.
"Iranians first appearin Assyrian records" doesn't mean they didn't exist before, they just first appeared in their records. When the Medes were mentioned and have been living in Kurdistan Assyrians didn't even exist!
Herodotus was a historian, he wrote about the history! He wrote about what happened before his era. He wrote about 'the Medes before his time'.
The DNA study was NOT done by Armenians, it was done by a scientific DNA company, once again, go read before you comment, you choose to ignore scientific evidence because you have an agenda of some sort, there's just as much Gypsy blood in Kurds I would say considering the large land they live in and the amount of diverse people living in, heck if we compare Kurds to Iranians, then you likely carry a much higher South Asian percentage than the Armenians, not all of South Asian blood is Gypsy, but some of certainly is.
Based on this chart from the study, the Kurds fall somewhere between Armenians and Iranians (Persians):
Their pull toward the Persians means the South Asian percentage in Kurds is probably somewhere around 5% and greater than Armenian who have less than 1%, if you want to argue with science, I simply won't discuss this matter with you anymore since you clearly have not read much about it.
Wow, hocus pocus! Now you're guessing the Kurdish DNA and the percentage of other people in them, without any correct sources, without any valid information and without help of authentic documentation. Kurds are much less mixed than Armenians and modern Iranians.
You can assimilate people without change your Y-DNA. In theory, if Armenian men slept with Armenian women, Armenian Y-DNA wouldn't change. What you're saying is pure nonsense.
And if those mixed people slept with Armenian (Urartu) women, the mtDNA wouldn't change either. But they still care that Gypsy gene in them.
And since they have assimilated a huge population of Gypsies, they changed their genetica for ever!
The Y-DNA of most African American men is European (because the European slave owners raped their female slaves) , but are they European, is their DNA European? TheY-DNA proves nothing!
The fact is that Armenians assimilated lots of Gypsies. Gypsies lost their identity and became Armenians. But nobody is saying and nowhere is documented that Kurds assimilated Gypsies. The assimilation of the Gypsies by Armenians is well documented through the history of 1000 years! Where are those Gypsies who lived in Armenia? Armenians are partly Gypsies. Armenia is a Gypsieland, period!
I don't care if Armenians are Gypsies or not. But don't compare them with the Kurds and don't spread lies after lies about us!
I'm done with you. After all what people say about my people, won't change our roots, culture, ethnicity and language. Leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Let us live!
MediaWarLord, I'm done arguing with you, with all due respect but I think you lack the ability to engage in an intellectual debate, I showed you scientific evidence and proof and all you do ignore and make up stuff that does not make any sense.
I'll just carry my discussion with the other guys since they know how to discuss these matters, if you're happy with what you believe in then great, but I'm interested in an intellectual discussion with proofs and evidence, this is something you cannot offer, good day.
The Medes simply get their name from the name of the land (Just like the Assyrians, Babylonians, Akkadians, so on), but in 2200 BC there was no such thing as Iranians in this region, and since you like Wikipedia so much, this is what it says about ancient Iranians:
Before that there was no such thing as Iranians in the area or Media, that quote from Herodotus where he calls the Medes "Aryans" is actually from around 450 BC, NOT 2200 BC.
"Iranians first appearin Assyrian records" doesn't mean they didn't exist before, they just first appeared in their records. When the Medes were mentioned and have been living in Kurdistan Assyrians didn't even exist!
Herodotus was a historian, he wrote about the history! He wrote about what happened before his era. He wrote about 'the Medes before his time'.
The DNA study was NOT done by Armenians, it was done by a scientific DNA company, once again, go read before you comment, you choose to ignore scientific evidence because you have an agenda of some sort, there's just as much Gypsy blood in Kurds I would say considering the large land they live in and the amount of diverse people living in, heck if we compare Kurds to Iranians, then you likely carry a much higher South Asian percentage than the Armenians, not all of South Asian blood is Gypsy, but some of certainly is.
Based on this chart from the study, the Kurds fall somewhere between Armenians and Iranians (Persians):
Their pull toward the Persians means the South Asian percentage in Kurds is probably somewhere around 5% and greater than Armenian who have less than 1%, if you want to argue with science, I simply won't discuss this matter with you anymore since you clearly have not read much about it.
Wow, hocus pocus! Now you're guessing the Kurdish DNA and the percentage of other people in them, without any correct sources, without any valid information and without help of authentic documentation. Kurds are much less mixed than Armenians and modern Iranians.
You can assimilate people without change your Y-DNA. In theory, if Armenian men slept with Armenian women, Armenian Y-DNA wouldn't change. What you're saying is pure nonsense.
And if those mixed people slept with Armenian (Urartu) women, the mtDNA wouldn't change either. But they still care that Gypsy gene in them.
And since they have assimilated a huge population of Gypsies, they changed their genetica for ever!
The Y-DNA of most African American men is European (because the European slave owners raped their female slaves) , but are they European, is their DNA European? TheY-DNA proves nothing!
The fact is that Armenians assimilated lots of Gypsies. Gypsies lost their identity and became Armenians. But nobody is saying and nowhere is documented that Kurds assimilated Gypsies. The assimilation of the Gypsies by Armenians is well documented through the history of 1000 years! Where are those Gypsies who lived in Armenia? Armenians are partly Gypsies. Armenia is a Gypsieland, period!
I don't care if Armenians are Gypsies or not. But don't compare them with the Kurds and don't spread lies after lies about us!
I'm done with you. After all what people say about my people, won't change our roots, culture, ethnicity and language. Leave us alone and we will leave you alone. Let us live!
2 things: -please stop the whole Gypsy thing, it proves nothing. -Assyrians were definitely in Mesopotamia before the Medes, no arguing there.
2 things: -please stop the whole Gypsy thing, it proves nothing. -Assyrians were definitely in Mesopotamia before the Medes, no arguing there.
Ok, maybe or maybe not. I wasn't there at that time. So I can't say you for sure who was first. The Medes or the Assyrians; the chicken or the egg.
And about the Gypsies, I like them much more than Armenians, Turks, Iranians, Arabs and Assyrians all together. It would be heaven on earth for Kurds if they were our neighbours.
Their pull toward the Persians means the South Asian percentage in Kurds is probably somewhere around 5% and greater than Armenian who have less than 1%, if you want to argue with science, I simply won't discuss this matter with you anymore since you clearly have not read much about it.
Not surpirsed that Kurds will cluster closer to Iranians of Iran. Kurds were historically most of the time part of the Iranian dynastys in the early days. The Sassanids armys was likey dominated by Kurds.
Not surpirsed that Kurds will cluster closer to Iranians of Iran. Kurds were historically most of the time part of the Iranian dynastys in the early days. The Sassanids armys was likey dominated by Kurds.
Technically speaking they're between the Armenians and Iranian Persians, this seems to fit the area pretty well actually since the Persians are more on the eastern side while the Armenians are more on the Anatolian side, the Kurds sit in between so this seems to point to the Zagros area as the home of the Kurds.
On this same chart you'll notice the Assyrians sitting between the Armenians and the Levant populations (Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians), once again this seems to fit the homeland where the Assyrians live in (North Mesopotamia), the amazing part is most of the oriental Jewish groups such as Iraqi, Iranian, Kurdish, Azeri, Uzbek, and Georgian Jews actually cluster with the Assyrians, this might be a connection that goes back to the days of Adiabene or some even further back to the lost tribes days.
One more thing, the Kurdish samples in this study are actually Iraqi Kurds taken from another major study, unfortunately there are no Iranian or Anatolian Kurds in the project.
According to Petersburg Academy, the dictionary called "Kurdish-Russian-German" contains 8307 Kurdish words. 3080 of these words are Turkic. 2640 of these words are Persian. 2000 of these words are Arabic that turned into different words and should be considered Turkic as well. That makes 5080 out of 8307 Kurdish words Turkic. There are 300 real Kurdish words.
When the English were ruling Iraq, they made Kurmanci the lingua franca and written and education language of Iraq. They made it represent three languages.
Someone simply tried to create a slave nation out of four different group of free people.
They simply were another tribe of Turkic bod just like most of Persians that are shown as non-Turkic.
This is why you can´t find a source about Petersburg academy any more. I ones asked you tell me only 20 Turkic words in kurdish and stop bitching around the Forum globe with such a nonsense.
Here are some words that entered Kurdish from Turkic (sometimes via Arabic&Persian) bayram (Turkic) > beyrem (Kurdish) becer (Turkic) > becer (Kurdish) belli (Turkic) > bewli (Kurdish) beniz (Turkic) > benz, bengz, begz, bekz (Kurdish) bıçkı (Turkic) > bıxçı, bışki, böxşi (Kurdish) bilezik (Turkic) > bilerzik (Kurdish) inanç (Turkic) > inanca (Kurdish) davar (Turkic) > davar (Kurdish) ısot (Turkic) > isot (Kurdish) kürt (Turkic) > Kürd (Kurdish)
Not surpirsed that Kurds will cluster closer to Iranians of Iran. Kurds were historically most of the time part of the Iranian dynastys in the early days. The Sassanids armys was likey dominated by Kurds.
Technically speaking they're between the Armenians and Iranian Persians, this seems to fit the area pretty well actually since the Persians are more on the eastern side while the Armenians are more on the Anatolian side, the Kurds sit in between so this seems to point to the Zagros area as the home of the Kurds.
On this same chart you'll notice the Assyrians sitting between the Armenians and the Levant populations (Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians), once again this seems to fit the homeland where the Assyrians live in (North Mesopotamia), the amazing part is most of the oriental Jewish groups such as Iraqi, Iranian, Kurdish, Azeri, Uzbek, and Georgian Jews actually cluster with the Assyrians, this might be a connection that goes back to the days of Adiabene or some even further back to the lost tribes days.
One more thing, the Kurdish samples in this study are actually Iraqi Kurds taken from another major study, unfortunately there are no Iranian or Anatolian Kurds in the project.
Anatolian samples might be similar to Iraq Kurds, sit between Armenians/Turks and Iranians. As for Kurds in Iran, they will most probably show closer ties to Iran as they have always been part of Iran.
I believe Y-Dna is the only way of telling Kurdish ancestory. For example Kurds likely have more Aryan linage then Turks of Turkey do Turkic. Sadly only a few Y-dna tests have been done on the Kurdish population, ones that have are too small to get a good picture. Only one study done on Anatolian Kurds and many on Iraqi Kurds and we can see from that they they have genetic ties to all the people that settled in Kurdistan from the Hurrians to Indo-Aryan Mittanis and the later Iranian tribes and then intermixing with their neighbouring populations, I know Kurds in Urfa and Mardin who have Arabic ancestory, to Kurds who have Turkic ancestory like myself and people in my family.
Not surpirsed that Kurds will cluster closer to Iranians of Iran. Kurds were historically most of the time part of the Iranian dynastys in the early days. The Sassanids armys was likey dominated by Kurds.
Technically speaking they're between the Armenians and Iranian Persians, this seems to fit the area pretty well actually since the Persians are more on the eastern side while the Armenians are more on the Anatolian side, the Kurds sit in between so this seems to point to the Zagros area as the home of the Kurds.
On this same chart you'll notice the Assyrians sitting between the Armenians and the Levant populations (Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians), once again this seems to fit the homeland where the Assyrians live in (North Mesopotamia), the amazing part is most of the oriental Jewish groups such as Iraqi, Iranian, Kurdish, Azeri, Uzbek, and Georgian Jews actually cluster with the Assyrians, this might be a connection that goes back to the days of Adiabene or some even further back to the lost tribes days.
One more thing, the Kurdish samples in this study are actually Iraqi Kurds taken from another major study, unfortunately there are no Iranian or Anatolian Kurds in the project.
Anatolian samples might be similar to Iraq Kurds, sit between Armenians/Turks and Iranians. As for Kurds in Iran, they will most probably show closer ties to Iran as they have always been part of Iran.
Not surpirsed that Kurds will cluster closer to Iranians of Iran. Kurds were historically most of the time part of the Iranian dynastys in the early days. The Sassanids armys was likey dominated by Kurds.
Technically speaking they're between the Armenians and Iranian Persians, this seems to fit the area pretty well actually since the Persians are more on the eastern side while the Armenians are more on the Anatolian side, the Kurds sit in between so this seems to point to the Zagros area as the home of the Kurds.
On this same chart you'll notice the Assyrians sitting between the Armenians and the Levant populations (Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians), once again this seems to fit the homeland where the Assyrians live in (North Mesopotamia), the amazing part is most of the oriental Jewish groups such as Iraqi, Iranian, Kurdish, Azeri, Uzbek, and Georgian Jews actually cluster with the Assyrians, this might be a connection that goes back to the days of Adiabene or some even further back to the lost tribes days.
One more thing, the Kurdish samples in this study are actually Iraqi Kurds taken from another major study, unfortunately there are no Iranian or Anatolian Kurds in the project.
Anatolian samples might be similar to Iraq Kurds, sit between Armenians/Turks and Iranians. As for Kurds in Iran, they will most probably show closer ties to Iran as they have always been part of Iran.
Mmmm, what about those in West Kurdistan?
Kurds who live around Central Anatolia might be tricky as some might show close ties to the east. In Ankara their are Laki Kurds, who were moved their by the ottomans from west Iran and then their is my own tribe that reside in Maras/Malatya who are also have believed to have come from the east. Unless a proper Y-dna test is done, everything is just a guessing game. Because the Y-dna tests that were carried out were only done on a few dozen people and not even knowing which one with which results came from which region.
I believe Y-Dna is the only way of telling Kurdish ancestory. For example Kurds likely have more Aryan linage then Turks of Turkey do Turkic. Sadly only a few Y-dna tests have been done on the Kurdish population, ones that have are too small to get a good picture. Only one study done on Anatolian Kurds and many on Iraqi Kurds and we can see from that they they have genetic ties to all the people that settled in Kurdistan from the Hurrians to Indo-Aryan Mittanis and the later Iranian tribes and then intermixing with their neighbouring populations, I know Kurds in Urfa and Mardin who have Arabic ancestory, to Kurds who have Turkic ancestory like myself and people in my family.
There has been DNA studies done on ancient remains of ancient Scythian Indo-Iranian skeletons in the Eurasian steppes, almost every single sample turned out to be haplogroup R1a1:
To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements,
we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes
and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the
Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium
BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the
search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south
Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single
nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and
mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens
seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all
subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark
the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results
also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia
was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement,
suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the
Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze
and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or
green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might
have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin
civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular
analysis has been undertaken so far.
Today this marker is most common in Eastern Europe and India, among Kurds haplogroup R1a1 is usually less than 20% in most cases, this is the frequency from (Nebel et al.):
J2 - 28.4% R1b - 16.8% I - 16.8% R1a - 11.6% J1 - 11.6% E1b1b - 7.4% G - 4.2% L - 3.2
As you can see from the frequency, the Kurds only carry 11.6% R1a1, keep in mind that just because someone carries this lineage that was carried by the ancient Indo-Iranians, it does not mean they come from Indo-Iranians, this lineage is very old and much older than the Proto-Indo-Europeans, it actually already existed in other places such as India, Middle East, and even as far as East Asia, to prove a point here in the same study we see the Arab Bedouins actually carried 9.4% R1a1 which is pretty much almost as much as the Kurds.
Overall the majority of Kurdish Y-DNA seems to be native to Anatolia/Caucasus, J2, J1, R1b, and G are all native lineages to these parts, that's 61% of the sample, E1b1b is East African but its existence in the Middle East is also very old and way before the rise civilizations, L could also be Middle Eastern if it's L2, if it's L1 or L3 then it's South/Central Asian, haplogroup I is a European lineage but also common in Anatolia, the subclade the Kurds carry is very likely I2 since this is most common around the Balkans and western parts of Anatolia, this same subclade is actually found in Turks and Armenians, haplogroup I1 on the other hand is very rare in the middle east and it's most common in Scandinavia among Germanic populations, whenever it is found in the middle east it's usually among Levant population which indicates a possible Crusader gene flow.
A newer study (Xing et al) has similar Y-DNA frequencies among Kurds, so as you can see the major lineages seem to be native as I've been saying all along, other populations such as Assyrians, Armenians, Turks, so on all show similar dominance of these native Y-DNA lineages.
Firstly I don’t know who and how took those people those samples and from which people and for what purposes. Sure we have the names, but who financed (and is behinde) the whole project?
Secondly they just used very few samples that don’t represent the total Kurdish population S. Kurdistan. n = 95 ? And it was not done randomly, no Yezidi Kurds no other Kurds. What kind of sample is it?
Thirdly they have just took a few examples from the Kurds of the lowest and huge mixed parts of South Kurdistan. They say that they took those samples from 'Muslim' Kurds. In South Kurdistan also live almost 1 million 'Yezidi' Kurds.
There’re just 4-5 million of Muslim Kurds in South Kurdistan. The total Kurdish population is 40 million, so such tests are not representative to all Kurds. Kurds in North (20 million), East (12-15 million) , West and Central Kurdistan are slightly different to the Southern Kurds from Kirkuk or Mosul (mixed cities) for example.
And every test says something else about the Kurds! Which test should we believe?
I believe Y-Dna is the only way of telling Kurdish ancestory. For example Kurds likely have more Aryan linage then Turks of Turkey do Turkic. Sadly only a few Y-dna tests have been done on the Kurdish population, ones that have are too small to get a good picture. Only one study done on Anatolian Kurds and many on Iraqi Kurds and we can see from that they they have genetic ties to all the people that settled in Kurdistan from the Hurrians to Indo-Aryan Mittanis and the later Iranian tribes and then intermixing with their neighbouring populations, I know Kurds in Urfa and Mardin who have Arabic ancestory, to Kurds who have Turkic ancestory like myself and people in my family.
There has been DNA studies done on ancient remains of ancient Scythian Indo-Iranian skeletons in the Eurasian steppes, almost every single sample turned out to be haplogroup R1a1:
To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements,
we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes
and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the
Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium
BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the
search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south
Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single
nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and
mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens
seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all
subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark
the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results
also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia
was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement,
suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the
Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze
and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or
green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might
have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin
civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular
analysis has been undertaken so far.
Today this marker is most common in Eastern Europe and India, among Kurds haplogroup R1a1 is usually less than 20% in most cases, this is the frequency from (Nebel et al.):
J2 - 28.4% R1b - 16.8% I - 16.8% R1a - 11.6% J1 - 11.6% E1b1b - 7.4% G - 4.2% L - 3.2
As you can see from the frequency, the Kurds only carry 11.6% R1a1, keep in mind that just because someone carries this lineage that was carried by the ancient Indo-Iranians, it does not mean they come from Indo-Iranians, this lineage is very old and much older than the Proto-Indo-Europeans, it actually already existed in other places such as India, Middle East, and even as far as East Asia, to prove a point here in the same study we see the Arab Bedouins actually carried 9.4% R1a1 which is pretty much almost as much as the Kurds.
Overall the majority of Kurdish Y-DNA seems to be native to Anatolia/Caucasus, J2, J1, R1b, and G are all native lineages to these parts, that's 61% of the sample, E1b1b is East African but its existence in the Middle East is also very old and way before the rise civilizations, L could also be Middle Eastern if it's L2, if it's L1 or L3 then it's South/Central Asian, haplogroup I is a European lineage but also common in Anatolia, the subclade the Kurds carry is very likely I2 since this is most common around the Balkans and western parts of Anatolia, this same subclade is actually found in Turks and Armenians, haplogroup I1 on the other hand is very rare in the middle east and it's most common in Scandinavia among Germanic populations, whenever it is found in the middle east it's usually among Levant population which indicates a possible Crusader gene flow.
A newer study (Xing et al) has similar Y-DNA frequencies among Kurds, so as you can see the major lineages seem to be native as I've been saying all along, other populations such as Assyrians, Armenians, Turks, so on all show similar dominance of these native Y-DNA lineages.
.
Like I said those tests are too small to get a good picture of the Kurdish population. Even Anatolian Kurds differ to the Iraqi Kurds on Y-dna. All iranian tribes that settled in Kurdistan live in Kurds of today, regadless of how much of a genetic impirnt they had, as they also left the legacy with culture and language. For example Turks in central asia have high levels of R1a, does that mean they are more Iranian then Kurds and Persians?
The frequancey of HG J is lower among anatolian Kurds and even R1b is lower among anatolian Kurds, like 4% among Kurmanji speakrs. And R1b is found very high among Caucasians and Armenians, along with J. The Sycthians and Cimmerians came from the North, like I explained before the Stelas found in Corduene are identical to the ones found in the Ukrain.
The frequencey of R1a among Kurds gets higher the further north you go, and this goes with Sycthians and Cimmerian ancestory, even Ossetians have lower R1a and yet they speak a Scythian dilalect. Those Arabs with R1a, coulld of got it from multiple people such as the Romans, Crusaders,Byzantine,Greeks and does not mean it is the same as the ones found among Kurds. Sadly those articles never mention wich sub-clade of R1a that was found among Kurds to pin point.
I at the moment looking for a article that I had found that did studies on Y-DNA on the population of Anatolia and it had stated which regions had the amounts of the Haplogroups and I remember it said that R1a was found highest in the Eastern half.
I believe Haplogroup I among Kurds likely was braught by Sycthians and Cimmerians from Eastern Europe or it least some of it.
Heres is a recent study done on R1a, and you can see that the R1a among Kurds has pattern, it comes from the North. It even shows that R1a is found highest in the highest populated Kurdish regions, like Hakkari.
Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a
Absolute we have more (most millions) Hg 'I' than any other nation in the world. And relative only some nation in the Balkans and in the Scandinavia have more Hg "I".
Hg "I" originates in Kurdistan, like it's predecessor Hg 'IJ'. Hg 'IJ' evolved in Kurdistan in Hg 'J' and Hg "I". And there are no traces of Hg "IJ" in Europe, so Hg "I" must be Middle Eastern/Kurdish. It's a Kurdish gene. Thats why so much Kurds have that marker. So I think those people in the Balkans and Scandinavia are from Kurdistan! Maybe some Guti who left Kurdistan and moved to Europe...
Absolute we have more (most millions) Hg 'I' than any other nation in the world. And relative only some nation in the Balkans and in the Scandinavia have more Hg "I".
Hg "I" originates in Kurdistan, like it's predecessor Hg 'IJ'. Hg 'IJ' evolved in Kurdistan in Hg 'J' and Hg "I". And there are no traces of Hg "IJ" in Europe, so Hg "I" must be Middle Eastern/Kurdish. It's a Kurdish gene. Thats why so much Kurds have that marker. So I think those people in the Balkans and Scandinavia are from Kurdistan! Maybe some Guti who left Kurdistan and moved to Europe...
Haplogroup I found among Kurds is I2a not IJ. I2a is found high among Easern Europe and I believe it was braught by Sythians and Cimmerians.
Absolute we have more (most millions) Hg 'I' than any other nation in the world. And relative only some nation in the Balkans and in the Scandinavia have more Hg "I".
Hg "I" originates in Kurdistan, like it's predecessor Hg 'IJ'. Hg 'IJ' evolved in Kurdistan in Hg 'J' and Hg "I". And there are no traces of Hg "IJ" in Europe, so Hg "I" must be Middle Eastern/Kurdish. It's a Kurdish gene. Thats why so much Kurds have that marker. So I think those people in the Balkans and Scandinavia are from Kurdistan! Maybe some Guti who left Kurdistan and moved to Europe...
Haplogroup I found among Kurds is I2a not IJ. I2a is found high among Easern Europe and I believe it was braught by Sythians and Cimmerians.
Possible, but I don't think so. I think that the Medes and Scythians were more likely R1a. I think the Indo-Europeans before the Medes (and Scythians), the first Indo-Europeans who migrated to Kurdistan carried that Hg 'I' marker. I'm talking about the Guti. And after that they moved back to the north again via the Balkans. And then came the Indo-Iranian tribes.
"the fact that both Haplogroup I and Haplogroup J are found among modern populations of the Caucasus, Anatolia, and Southwest Asia tends to support the hypothesis that Haplogroup IJ derived from Haplogroup IJK in the vicinity of West Asia or the Middle East and subsequently spread throughout Western Eurasia."
Absolute we have more (most millions) Hg 'I' than any other nation in the world. And relative only some nation in the Balkans and in the Scandinavia have more Hg "I".
Hg "I" originates in Kurdistan, like it's predecessor Hg 'IJ'. Hg 'IJ' evolved in Kurdistan in Hg 'J' and Hg "I". And there are no traces of Hg "IJ" in Europe, so Hg "I" must be Middle Eastern/Kurdish. It's a Kurdish gene. Thats why so much Kurds have that marker. So I think those people in the Balkans and Scandinavia are from Kurdistan! Maybe some Guti who left Kurdistan and moved to Europe...
Haplogroup I found among Kurds is I2a not IJ. I2a is found high among Easern Europe and I believe it was braught by Sythians and Cimmerians.
Possible, but I don't think so. I think that the Medes and Scythians were more likely R1a. I think the Indo-Europeans before the Medes (and Scythians), the first Indo-Europeans who migrated to Kurdistan carried that Hg 'I' marker. I'm talking about the Guti. And after that they moved back to the north again via the Balkans. And then came the Indo-Iranian tribes.
"the fact that both Haplogroup I and Haplogroup J are found among modern populations of the Caucasus, Anatolia, and Southwest Asia tends to support the hypothesis that Haplogroup IJ derived from Haplogroup IJK in the vicinity of West Asia or the Middle East and subsequently spread throughout Western Eurasia."
It does not mean that Sycthians and Cimmerians did not bring I2a. Like I mentioned that the Stelas that were found Corduene are nearly identical to the ones found in Ukrain. The Sycthians were living around Eastern Europe and Russia and they likely mixed with population and then came to Kurdistan. The thought that all the Sycthians were pure R1a is rather ridiculas, as they would of mixed with people along the way.
Regardless, the frequencey of R1a found in Afghanistan is around 30-40%, does that make them only about 40% iranian?
Kurds in Antolia and Iraq have also been intermixing with other populations over the past few thousand years and even more since the indroduction of Islam. Like for example the Zaza in Anatolia are mainly all Alevis and they only mixed with other Alevis, and they have high amounts of R1a and I.
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Topic: Kurdish ancestry: what is true, and what isn't?
