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Statue Menhirs, Prehistoric Western Europe

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Statue Menhirs, Prehistoric Western Europe
    Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 13:40


A statue menhir from Montpellier in southern France

More info: http://lithos-perigord.org/spip.php?article797

About Statue-menhirs: http://www.jrank.org/history/pages/6535/Statue-menhirs.html

The identity of these mysterious personages is unclear. Of the three regional groups on the French mainland, only one, the Languedoc group, shows any association with settlement site or burial monuments. The others, especially the Rouergue group, are located far from contemporary settlement sites in relatively remote areas of upland. This has led to the suggestion that they represent deities. Breasts on a few examples indicate that some of the statue-menhirs are female; others are considered male from the presence of weapons, though it is quite possible that these were also used by women at this time. The universal absence of a mouth is a feature that may indicate the ritual or belief associated with the monuments.

The south French and Alpine statue-menhirs are dated to the late Neolithic and Chalcolithic Periods (ca. 3500–2500 B.C.). This is shown both by the objects depicted on the stones and by the occasional discovery of a statue-menhir in a sealed archaeological context. At Euzet, Gravas and Montferrand statue-menhirs have been found among the remains of prehistoric farming villages dated to this period.

It is interting to read a thread that I posted some years ago: Temple with 500 statues discovered in 7,000 years old Yeri

TEHRAN, July 19 (MNA) -- Over 500 stone steles bearing images of faces of men and women with no mouths were recently discovered at Shahr Yeri in Ardebil Province, the director of the team of archaeologists working at the site announced on Tuesday.
 
 
 
There is a long distance but I think these are similar, don't you think so?
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 14:11
Megalith is a very widespread structure in Europe either alone or together with other stones. The construction of these structures took place mainly in the Neolithic (though earlier Mesolithic examples are known) and continued into the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age.
This is KROMLEH-megalith structure from East Rodope mountain in Bulgaria
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 21:10
Ok but these simple stones can be found everywhere in the world, I'm talking about those mouthless statues with their details, it seems in Europe they have been found just in a region in the southern France and northwestern Italy, is there any of them in Bulgaria too?
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 23:06
Very interesting. Maybe a nomadic peoples who seperated into two groups, one going to southern Europe the other to the Caucasus/norther middle east region. Thats a reasonable theory I would say and considering the similarity I'd say its probably a plausible one.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 10:10

Good mention TheGreatSimba, but who were these people?

 
What can connect Galesh people of northwestern Iran and Gaulish people of France, except their similar names? Who was the main god of the ancient people who lived in the northwestern Iran? I mean the ancestor of Urartians, a word which meant "Companion of God" in Old Irish, like Culdee?
 

http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Khaldi-(god)

 
Khaldi is the supreme god of the Urartians. Khaldi formed a triad with Theispas and Artinis. The Urartians regarded him as their ancestor. Khaldi's main temple was built in the ancient city of Musasir, southwest of Lake Urmia.
 
It is good to read from the book "WHO WERE THE CELTS", Chapter XII: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/pob/pob_ch12.html
 

This new line of evidence leads us to the conclusion that the early "Celts" or "Kelts" were presumably the early Picts calling themselves "Khaldis" or "Khaltis," a primitive people who, I find from a mass of evidence, were the early "Chaldees" or Galat(i) and "Gal(li) " of Van and Eastern Asia Minor and Mesopotamia in the Stone Age. {Details in Aryan Origins.} Their western hordes would seem to have retained their title of "Khaltis " or "Galati" or "Gal," when in the Old Stone Age they penetrated westward into Gaul on the Atlantic and formed there the primitive Kelts or Celtae of Gaul and of Pictavia on the border of Iberia, and the Gauls and Gaul are actually called "Galatae" and "Galat" by Strabo {S. i, 3, 21, etc.; iv, 2, 1, etc.}



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Dec-2009 at 22:36
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2009 at 02:36

Lets talk about Ardabil where those Iranian statues have been found, TheGreatSimba, you have probably heard that among all Islamic figures, Ardablians love just Abilfazl, as they themselves call him, Arabic Abolfazl, Persian Abalfazl, and even consider him as the God!! do you know why?

You can read about Rezazadeh, the most powerful man of the world, here: http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=174176 as you read it says he is a true Ardabilian and this sentence: "Hossein Rezazadeh is well known for calling upon Abalfazl in time of need."
 
Don't you think that the name of "Abilfazl" is similar to the name of a God, who was also worshipped in this region?
 
Some say the name of Ardabil comes from Avestan "Artavil" which means a holy place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardabil it is clearly a fake etymology, "Vil" or "Avil" never means "Place" in the Iranian languages, in fact there was absolutely no "L" sound in the Avestan and Old Persian languages, so what did "Abil" mean? This word can be seen in the names of several other places in Ardabil, like the largest lake: Shorabil Lake: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorabil_Lake and highest mountain Sabilan/Sabalan Mount (Iran's second highest mountain): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabalan
 
The first part of the word "Ardabil" is "Ard" which means "High" in the Old Irish language, like "Ard-ri" which means "High King" -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_King_of_Ireland but about the second part please read this thread: Gaulish Beltane & Galesh Baleno, Summer Festival, the God was Abellio:
 
Abellio (also Abelio and Abelionni) was a god worshipped in the Garonne Valley in Gallia Aquitania (now southwest France), known to us primarily by a number of inscriptions which were discovered at Comminges.[1]
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2009 at 03:14
Let me repeat it here, you mix different ages and places as you like to. 7000 years in Iran, 5000 in France, what happened between, why we have no stones like that between France and Iran? The look equal, but they are different, so is one ethnos responsible? The area of France where we find menhirs is not original celtic, so aren't the picts.
And again, 7000 years ago there were no Iranians in Iran, they came 4000 years later and the celts exist since about 2600 years.
What you do is not scientific work, sorry.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2009 at 05:01
I never said the temple dates back to 7,000 years ago, Yeri historical site has different archaeological layers, the oldest one is said to be from 7,000 years ago, just look at a website and read about the temple, for example read it from Iran Cultural Heritage News Agency: http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=2&id=5988 as you read it say the temple dates back to the second Iron Age (3200 years ago), so it can be said statue Menhirs in the south of France are even older!
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2010 at 00:58

It is asked: "The Sphinx, a statue-menhir ?" -> http://www.archaeometry.org/sphinxEN.htm

It is really a good research but why the Sphinx?!

Some statue-menhirs from Filitosa in southern Corsica, France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filitosa

Lets see what has been discovered just some kms from Shahr Yeri where that Iranian temple is located:

http://www.payvand.com/news/00/apr/1041.html

Ardebil, April 10, IRNA -- A huge anthropoid statue made of stone has been discovered on a hill overlooking Anbaran village in the city of Namin, Ardebil province in northwest Iran, by an Iranian geographer.

The statue, 20 meters high and six meters wide, was found in an area 40 km from the provincial capital city of Ardebil at the top of a 100-meter high hill.

Residents of Anbaran village call the statue 'baba davood' and entertain the belief that a shrine, built in the area surrounding the statue, has been destroyed with the lapse of time.

However, local residents have no exact information as to why the statue is called `baba davood,' or its historical beginning.

While projections resembling the eyes, mouth and chin of a person can be seen on the face of the statue, it is believed that they have been shaped by atmospheric changes. However, a human role in the shaping of the statue cannot be ignored.

The stone statue, situated on the bank of a river overlooking anbaran village, is very similar to the statue of sphinx, one of the wonders in the world.

 
As you see some persons have stood on the head of this statue.
 
Lets compare with the Sphinx:
 


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 01-Jan-2010 at 01:13
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2010 at 11:57
As I mentioned early Celtic people were called "Khaldis" and you can read about Urartian Khaldi:
 
Khaldi is the supreme god of the Urartians. Khaldi formed a triad with Theispas and Artinis. The Urartians regarded him as their ancestor. Khaldi's main temple was built in the ancient city of Musasir, southwest of Lake Urmia.
 
The second god is Theispas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theispas the Urartian god of storms and thunder who was often depicted as a man holding a handful of thunderbolts, like Hurrian Teshub: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teshub Teshub (also written Teshup or Tešup) was the Hurrian god of sky and storm. He was derived from the Hattian Taru. He is depicted holding a triple thunderbolt and a weapon, usually an axe (often double-headed) or mace.
 
And about Celtic Taranis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taranis In Celtic mythology Taranis was the god of thunder worshipped in Hispania. Many representations of a bearded god with a thunderbolt in one hand and a wheel in the other have been recovered from Gaul, where this deity apparently came to be syncretised with Jupiter. The name Taranis has not yet been recovered from Gaulish inscriptions, but similar variants have, such as Taranucno-, Taranuo-, and Taraino-
 
I think Urartian Artinis could be also the same Celtic Artionis, Celtic bear goddess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artio


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 02-Feb-2010 at 05:51
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2010 at 02:42

It is interesting top read about Gargoyles here: http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~bump/oxford/gargoyles.html

Gaping Mouths

You will find that an inordinate number of gargoyles have their mouths wide open and their tongues protruding. Why? 
The mouth pulled open is a frequent symbol of devouring giants. In order to convey size in a small sculpture, much smaller figures are placed next to the "giant". The act of pulling the mouth open is a threatening gesture which serves to remind us that we are vulnerable to forces larger than ourselves. 

Men With Foliage
 
The Celts often depicted a human head entwined with foliage. Branches coming from the mouth or crowning the head were a sign of divinity. Often, the branches are of the oak tree which was sacred to the Druids. Images like this have come to be called "Jack O'Green" or "The Green Man" 

Sex Objects
 
Fertility was the major theme of pagan religions, and fertility symbols were not excluded from cathedral walls. If these symbols were on the outside walls, they might scare off evil spirits. This would explain how some fairly crude sexual imagery came to be preserved on the outer walls. However, some would argue that these images may arouse more than they discourage. The most crudely sexual image is perhaps that of Sheelagh-na-Gig, commongly found on medieal Irish churches. Her eyes are typically round and deeply drilled, with no mouth and an obscene pose.

And about Sheelagh-Na-Gig: http://www.unc.edu/celtic/catalogue/stbrigid/SHEELAGH.html

The Sheelagh-na-gig from Hertfordshire is a relatively small stone carving located on an exterior wall underneath the eaves of a British Romanesque church notable for the overwhelming abundance of pagan iconography in its decorative program. She is specifically an abstract, if not crude, figuration of a hag-like female form indicating her enlarged genitals with her hands. Although this Sheelagh-na-gig dates to the 11th or 12th century, she shares with earlier Celtic traditions of human depiction a departure from naturalistic representation. She can be identified as a symbol of fertility and abundance rather than a true depiction of a human female by the subordination of her tiny limbs and torso to those most significant in the Celtic iconography of gods and goddesses; her head and sexual characteristics. Thus, any sense of realistic proportion is abandoned. Her head is similar in form and conception to earlier Celtic designs in that her facial features have been highly summarized and abstracted. The mouth of the Sheelagh-na-gig has been eliminated entirely, her large nose is represented by an incised line, and her eyes are merely deeply punched holes with one incised surrounding circle. The head is nearly circular with a slight indication of a chin and there are no ears.

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 09:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


A statue menhir from Montpellier in southern France

(................ )
 
 
 
 
 
There is a long distance but I think these are similar, don't you think so?
 
The distance does not seem a problem. Besides migrating groups, ancient world  had its travellers, explorers etc . 
 

The shared mouthlessness is a remarkable feature. Maybe not enough by itself for a relation. Of course, if their timeframes overlap and a few other special traits are also shared by both societies, the case for some sort of connection gets stronger.

These megalithic statues from the island of Sulawesi ( east Indonesia ) lack the mouth as well and look pretty similar to the Middle Eastern  and European ones ( not the Corsica ones which are not mouth less).   Dozens are found in a certain valley ( some are 4 meter  high). They are ancient but how ancient is not known. The locals don’t known who built them.

 
 


Edited by Sander - 03-Feb-2010 at 09:40
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2012 at 14:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Ok but these simple stones can be found everywhere in the world, I'm talking about those mouthless statues with their details, it seems in Europe they have been found just in a region in the southern France and northwestern Italy, is there any of them in Bulgaria too?

No, all I know in Bulgaria are just stones, shaped kinda pointy, bot no faces on them - like this one near Ovcharovo, called Chuchul Stone:
Ovcharovo: Menhir Chuchul Kamak
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