Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Inscription of Darius the Great in Romania

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Inscription of Darius the Great in Romania
    Posted: 28-Aug-2009 at 06:42
I would have always loved to know what Darius the Great wanted to say in his inscription in Gherla, in the northwestern part of modern Romania: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/romania/map/m1710782/gherla.html
 
 
 
One of the most remarkable inscriptions from Antiquity is the following fragmentary text, written in Persian cuneiform script, found in 1937 on a clay tablet in Gherla, and published in 1954:

[...] king [Darius] son of Hystaspes [...]
[...] did [...]

This is of course not a text full of very important information, but the fact that it exists is remarkable, because Gherla is in the northwestern part of modern Rumania.

Although this is the only Achaemenid royal inscription that was ever found in Europe, it is not entirely without parallels. The Greek researcher Herodotus of Halicarnassus tells us in his famous Histories that Darius, after conquering the eastern part of Thrace (in c.513), visited the source of a river and left the following inscription:
The head-springs of the Tearos give the best and fairest water of all rivers; and to them came (leading an army against the Scythians) the best and fairest of all men, Darius, son of Hystaspes, of the Persians and of all the continent king.
[Herodotus, Histories 4.91]
The first two thirds of this text do not resemble other Achaemenid inscriptions, but the last line and the location of the site remind one of Darius' inscription (DE, especially the last part) near the waters of Gandj Nameh. Although Herodotus renders the contents of the Persian inscription in Thrace erroneously, there are reports that the inscription itself was still visible until 1830.

What do you think about it?

Back to Top
khshayathiya View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 20-Feb-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
  Quote khshayathiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2009 at 10:36
The inscription Herodotus mentions shows how much people in Thrace knew about Persian language.

The most likely scenario is that Herodotus one day met with a Greek from the Black Sea coast or a Thracian capable of speaking Greek, had a goblet of wine and asked him - like the good journalist that he was - about the expedition of Darius in Thrace and into the Getic lands. The guy told him whatever he could remember from the tales of his grandparents and then suddenly remembered that he saw an inscription everybody said had been set up by Darius. Obviously unaware of the actual text, Herodotus' source used his brains: "Bah - what could Darius have written there? Something like ... [...]"

It is interesting that a clay tablet was found as far North as Gherla. Usually clay tablets do not constitute booty - their only value is the text they bear. 

So, there are a number of hypotheses open: 
1. the object had gathered emotional/mythical value and was considered a sort of heirloom. It is said, for example, of Mithradates VI that he still took pride in showcasing objects he claimed to have belonged to Darius the Great. 
2. the object was a diplomatic message actually sent out as early as Dareios' expedition, although that is problematic, given that the language of the chancellary was actually "imperial" Aramaic
3. the ancient artefact, written in a language nobody could understand was discovered at some point in Antiquity and used as an amulet, given that particularly in the Roman Imperial age professional magicians would use exotic symbols and languages to impress the gullible. Interestingly, the very word for magic, Latin "magia" comes from Greek "mageia" and basically means "the craft of the Magi", the Persian priests.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2009 at 13:33
I think there are two points about this inscription, as you somehow mentioned the main language of the Achaemenid empire was Aramaic, the first point is that this inscription is in Old Persian, it shows, like his Suez Inscription, Darius with a pure national pride probably wanted to say here in Persian too: "I am a Persian; from Persia I seized this land" and another point is about the second line of this inscription which contains just one word: "did", I think it can be an important word, if that is a translation of the Old Persian word "akunavam", it is possible that, like his other inscriptions, he wanted to first say: "This is what I did ..." and then to talk about his victories and achievements.
But there are some questions, why he inscribed it on a clay tablet?! Could it be an important inscription which indicates something? Did Darius really reach north west of modern Romania? We know about Suez and its importance, was Gherla an important location in that period too? What about other periods, if we want to assume a transfer theory? For example we know the famous Babylonian inscription of Hammurabi (law code of Hammurabi) was discovered at Susa, it was certainly not the original location of the inscription but there were some reasons that Elamites transferred this inscription to their capital.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2009 at 14:06

Darius the Great in his Behistun inscription (DB 5.20-30) says:

Darius the King says: Afterwards with an army I went off to Scythia, after the Scythians who wear the pointed cap. These Scythians went from me. When I arrived at the sea, beyond it then with all my army I crossed. Afterwards, I smote the Scythians exceedingly; another (leader) I took captive; this one was led bound to me, and I slew him. The chief of them, by name Skunkha -- him they seized and led to me. Then I made another their chief, as was my desire. After that, the province became mine.

What did he mean by the sea? Which sea did he mean? Black Sea, Caspian Sea, Aral Sea, ...?
Back to Top
khshayathiya View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 20-Feb-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
  Quote khshayathiya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2009 at 02:57
Well, I think it would stretch the point to say that the main lanuage of the Empire was Aramaic. I merely said the langage of the chancellary was Aramaic, and particularly a certain variety - to a good extent artificial - of this language called by linguists "Imperial Aramaic". In the Empire Aramaic was a widespread language, to be sure, but not necessarily the dominant one. 

I am skeptical about Darius' "national pride" in using what was, after all, his native language. What I mean to say is - it is not so striking that Darius uses his native language, Old Persian, but it is worthy of note that his chancellary uses Aramaic.

You are right to note that the verb is interesting. Unfortunately, I could not get a hold of the original text. It could be a 1st person "I did" or, more likely, a 3rd person, "he did": "akunaush".

However, if this is the verb, then the notion is much more concrete. In DPa, the text goes "Darayavaush khshayathiya vazarka [...] haya imam tacaram akunaush": "Dareios the Great King [...] who built/made this palace".

If the Gherla inscription contains this verb, then it indicates that the king built something rather that he did/achieved something. Before we get too excited, however, I'd like topoint out that this does not necessarily indicate the Persians built anything in the territory of what would become Dacia, because such dedicatory inscriptions were carved on unperishable materials (metal, stone), while the clay shards were mere copies of the text, made in order to publicise it to populations which could not examine the carving in its original location.


Edited by khshayathiya - 04-Sep-2009 at 02:59
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2009 at 05:58

Maybe you are right and Darius really built something there, this book says that is an Achaemenid clay brick with inscriptions, so it could belong to a building, more interesting things can be read here: A commentary on Herodotus books I-IV, Page 662 (previous pages are not shown!)

Did Darius build a line of forts in the north of Romania?!
Back to Top
diegis1 View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 23-Dec-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote diegis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2009 at 14:10
 Hello Cyrus
 I am from Romania and funny, a part of my family is from several kilometres far from Gherla, thats why i was surprised to see this topic. I must say that not any persian style fort or constructions was found in Dacia how we was named back then. Even more, is said that the only ones who opposed by armed force (even if was defeated) to Darius during his expedition was Getians (Dacians), and this somewhere south of Danube probably. Darius from what i know followed a course close to Black Sea, and in west of that was a lot of forests and Carpatian mountains, so hard to believe he adventured there, and if so, hard to believe without to left any traces, or to be mentioned somewhere. He retreated after that, but persians mantained a teritory  from Thrace and Greek areas in south of Danube, and it is possible that the inscription to belong to that period. Several centuries after Dacians of Burebista conquered all greeks cities from Black Sea, and controled the thracians as well, so is possible that inscription to be taked by dacians as booty, who knows.
 Anyway the persian presence in south of dacian/getian areas was not quite without influence, for ex. "akinakes" persian type of short sword was find in getian sites, including a parade model but having a more getian style zoomorfic motives.
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Dec-2009 at 12:12

I think if Persians wanted to build a fort there, then in all probability they would name it "Dej", the very Persian word for fortress, if you search for "Dej Fortress" in Google then you will first find this wiki article about the City of Dej, just some kms north of Gherla in northwestern Romania, and then about some Iranian cities with this name, like Sanandej, the capital of Kurdistan province.

There were some other cities which were renamed Dej when they were conquered by Persians, like Jerusalem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem (read "Roman-Persian wars")


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 24-Dec-2009 at 12:53
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620
  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 08:05
Central Romania has an interesting past. It seems that in the middle of the 12th century CE, a lot of Germanic people including some from Flanders!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzenland

And indeed it is also reported that the famous or infamous Teutonic Knights were also directed to this area after the reversals in the Levant / Outremer!

"In 1211 the region was given to the Teutonic Knights by King Andrew II of Hungary in return for guarding the southeastern border of the Kingdom of Hungary against the Cumans. While the king retained his right to mint currency and claims on gold or silver deposits that would be uncovered, he granted the Teutonic Order the right to establish markets and administer justice. The crusaders were also free from taxes and tolls.[6] The Teutonic Knights began building wood-and-earth forts in the area and they had constructed five castles (quinque castra fortia):[5] Marienburg, Schwarzenburg, Rosenau, Kreuzburg, and Kronstadt,[6] some of which were made of stone.[6] The military order was successful in reducing the threat of the nomadic Cumans. German already in Transylvania and volunteer settlers from the Holy Roman Empire developed farms and villages nearby to support the forts and settle the land.[6]"

It should also be noted that this area bordered upon the valley of Dracull(a)! See this map;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Map_of_Burzenland%2C_1959.jpg

And the major city in the area appears to have the name "Kronstadt, Brassó", which today is called Brasov! See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra%C5%9Fov

There is a list of cities and towns at the above site, and one of them is "Bran!" But, wait! It seems that Bran is but another version of Brasov! See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran,_Romania

" Bran, Braşov
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Bran, Romania)

Bran

Bran (German: Törzburg; Hungarian: Törcsvár) is a commune in Braşov County, Romania. It lies 30 km from the city of Braşov. Medieval Bran Castle, located in Bran, is a popular tourist destination as it is purported setting for Count Dracula, in Bram Stoker's 'Dracula'.
History
The Teutonic Order began construction of a wooden fort known as Dietrichstein in the early 13th century. After the fort's destruction in 1242 by Mongols, King Sigismund of Hungary ordered the construction of a stone castle in 1377, while the settlement of Bran began to develop nearby. Positioned high atop a steep cliff, the castle guarded a strategic trade route between Transylvania and Wallachia. In 1498, Bran fell under the jurisdiction of Braşov."

Ah! There it is in the last sentence, Bran was "under the jurisdiction of Brasov!"
Perhaps we need to look at this area during the 14th and 15th centuries?

http://www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm

Even more interesting is the fact that Galati, is a city to the East of Vlad's domain!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gala%C5%A3i

"The name of the city appears to have derived from Cuman galat, which was borrowed from the Arabic qal'at (fortress). Also other etymologies were suggested, such as the Serbian galac; however the galat root appears in several nearby toponyms, some of which show clearly a Cuman origin, for example Gălăţui Lake, which has the typical Cuman -ui suffix for "water". A derivation from Galatia (Gaul), suggesting a Celtic origin, is possible, but unlikely.

Names in other languages:

Greek: Galàtsi, Γαλατσι
German: Galatz
Hungarian: Galac
Polish: Gałacz
Turkish: Kalas
Bulgarian: Галац"

Since "Galati" is so similar to a place located just outside the walls of Constantinople, which had the name Galata, what is written about it and its name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galata

"There are several theories concerning the origin of the name Galata. According to the Italians, the name comes from Calata (meaning downward slope) as the neighbourhood is sloped and goes downwards to the sea from a hilltop. The Greeks believe that the name comes either from Galaktos (meaning milk, as the area was used by shepherds in the early medieval period) or from the word Galat (meaning Celtic in Greek) as the Celtic tribe of Galatians were thought to have camped here during the Hellenistic period before settling into Galatia in central Anatolia. The inhabitants of Galatia are famous for the Epistle to the Galatians and the Dying Galatian statue."

Maybe a clue comes from these words above? "or from the word Galat (meaning Celtic in Greek)"

And it appears that the word Galatz, in German, stands both for the suburb of Constantinople as well as the city of Galatz / Galati in Romania, just how do they keep them seperate?

See the map here; http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D00E0DC153BE633A25752C3A9649D946796D6CF

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 30-Dec-2009 at 08:32
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
diegis1 View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 23-Dec-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote diegis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 13:40
Originally posted by opuslola

Central Romania has an interesting past. It seems that in the middle of the 12th century CE, a lot of Germanic people including some from Flanders!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzenland

And indeed it is also reported that the famous or infamous Teutonic Knights were also directed to this area after the reversals in the Levant / Outremer!

"In 1211 the region was given to the Teutonic Knights by King Andrew II of Hungary in return for guarding the southeastern border of the Kingdom of Hungary against the Cumans. While the king retained his right to mint currency and claims on gold or silver deposits that would be uncovered, he granted the Teutonic Order the right to establish markets and administer justice. The crusaders were also free from taxes and tolls.[6] The Teutonic Knights began building wood-and-earth forts in the area and they had constructed five castles (quinque castra fortia):[5] Marienburg, Schwarzenburg, Rosenau, Kreuzburg, and Kronstadt,[6] some of which were made of stone.[6] The military order was successful in reducing the threat of the nomadic Cumans. German already in Transylvania and volunteer settlers from the Holy Roman Empire developed farms and villages nearby to support the forts and settle the land.[6]"

It should also be noted that this area bordered upon the valley of Dracull(a)! See this map;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Map_of_Burzenland%2C_1959.jpg

And the major city in the area appears to have the name "Kronstadt, Brassó", which today is called Brasov! See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra%C5%9Fov

There is a list of cities and towns at the above site, and one of them is "Bran!" But, wait! It seems that Bran is but another version of Brasov! See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran,_Romania

" Bran, Braşov
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Bran, Romania)

Bran

Bran (German: Törzburg; Hungarian: Törcsvár) is a commune in Braşov County, Romania. It lies 30 km from the city of Braşov. Medieval Bran Castle, located in Bran, is a popular tourist destination as it is purported setting for Count Dracula, in Bram Stoker's 'Dracula'.
History
The Teutonic Order began construction of a wooden fort known as Dietrichstein in the early 13th century. After the fort's destruction in 1242 by Mongols, King Sigismund of Hungary ordered the construction of a stone castle in 1377, while the settlement of Bran began to develop nearby. Positioned high atop a steep cliff, the castle guarded a strategic trade route between Transylvania and Wallachia. In 1498, Bran fell under the jurisdiction of Braşov."

Ah! There it is in the last sentence, Bran was "under the jurisdiction of Brasov!"
Perhaps we need to look at this area during the 14th and 15th centuries?

http://www.donlinke.com/drakula/vlad.htm

Even more interesting is the fact that Galati, is a city to the East of Vlad's domain!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gala%C5%A3i

"The name of the city appears to have derived from Cuman galat, which was borrowed from the Arabic qal'at (fortress). Also other etymologies were suggested, such as the Serbian galac; however the galat root appears in several nearby toponyms, some of which show clearly a Cuman origin, for example Gălăţui Lake, which has the typical Cuman -ui suffix for "water". A derivation from Galatia (Gaul), suggesting a Celtic origin, is possible, but unlikely.

Names in other languages:

Greek: Galàtsi, Γαλατσι
German: Galatz
Hungarian: Galac
Polish: Gałacz
Turkish: Kalas
Bulgarian: Галац"

Since "Galati" is so similar to a place located just outside the walls of Constantinople, which had the name Galata, what is written about it and its name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galata

"There are several theories concerning the origin of the name Galata. According to the Italians, the name comes from Calata (meaning downward slope) as the neighbourhood is sloped and goes downwards to the sea from a hilltop. The Greeks believe that the name comes either from Galaktos (meaning milk, as the area was used by shepherds in the early medieval period) or from the word Galat (meaning Celtic in Greek) as the Celtic tribe of Galatians were thought to have camped here during the Hellenistic period before settling into Galatia in central Anatolia. The inhabitants of Galatia are famous for the Epistle to the Galatians and the Dying Galatian statue."

Maybe a clue comes from these words above? "or from the word Galat (meaning Celtic in Greek)"

And it appears that the word Galatz, in German, stands both for the suburb of Constantinople as well as the city of Galatz / Galati in Romania, just how do they keep them seperate?

See the map here; http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9D00E0DC153BE633A25752C3A9649D946796D6CF

Regards,


 Well, interesting, but what all this had to do with Darius inscription?


Edited by diegis1 - 30-Dec-2009 at 13:55
Back to Top
diegis1 View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 23-Dec-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote diegis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 13:48
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think if Persians wanted to build a fort there, then in all probability they would name it "Dej", the very Persian word for fortress, if you search for "Dej Fortress" in Google then you will first find this wiki article about the City of Dej, just some kms north of Gherla in northwestern Romania, and then about some Iranian cities with this name, like Sanandej, the capital of Kurdistan province.

There were some other cities which were renamed Dej when they were conquered by Persians, like Jerusalem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem (read "Roman-Persian wars")


 Yes, i know where Dej is, but, as i said, there wasnt any persian fort ever found in Dacia/today Romania. However, there is possible that some dacian/getian tribes to mix or absorb some iranian tribes, as a suposedly iranic (some says was in fact from thracian roots after all) tribe, called "agatarsi" was mentioned living in that area, among the dacians (even before Darius european invasion, and not related with that), but if it was really iranic was dacized and absorbed by them shortly after, as well some scythian/iranian tribes was mixed with getae/dacian ones, as was probably the case with masagetae and thyssagetae.


Edited by diegis1 - 30-Dec-2009 at 13:54
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2009 at 23:48
Persian architecture was a mixture of local architecture, even in Iran, it is very difficult to say just by the type of th architecture that a building in the north or the south of the country was built by Persians or not.
 
But the names could prove it, the fact is that Persians usually renamed the place names when they conquered the lands, I read some interesting things in this book: Etymological Lexicon of the Indigenous (Thracian) Elements in Romanian, as you read it says the name of Abrud river in the northwest Romania has a Persian origin, about Abrud in Romania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrud Abrud (Old Persian ap-rauta) is in fact the only Persian word for "water/river", like Avestan/Scythian "Danu", you can also find several cities in Iran with the same name, like Abrud in Khorasan:
http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m4274981/abrud.html or another Abrud in Gilan province: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/p6003301/abrud.html


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Dec-2009 at 23:57
Back to Top
diegis1 View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 23-Dec-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote diegis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2009 at 03:08
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Persian architecture was a mixture of local architecture, even in Iran, it is very difficult to say just by the type of th architecture that a building in the north or the south of the country was built by Persians or not.
 
But the names could prove it, the fact is that Persians usually renamed the place names when they conquered the lands, I read some interesting things in this book: Etymological Lexicon of the Indigenous (Thracian) Elements in Romanian, as you read it says the name of Abrud river in the northwest Romania has a Persian origin, about Abrud in Romania: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrud Abrud (Old Persian ap-rauta) is in fact the only Persian word for "water/river", like Avestan/Scythian "Danu", you can also find several cities in Iran with the same name, like Abrud in Khorasan:
http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m4274981/abrud.html or another Abrud in Gilan province: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/p6003301/abrud.html


 Hello Cyrus

 Thank you for links, it will be a very interesting reading for sure, unfortunately i dont have time now to read all.
 About persian presence here, beside some elements inspired by persians (as those "akinakes" short swords, or some art inspired elements, or that inscription), there was not recorded any persian presence. Not any ancient chronicle, nor the archeology, show any presence of persians here, except the short expedition of Darius. However, getae (dacians) had interferences with other iranian peoples, as scythians or sarmatians for ex.
 About Abrud, i look at article you provide, and the author said it was probable from an indo-european or even preindo-european root, even if was tried to be explained from a persian root as well, but he said that hypotesis cannot explain the romanian form.
 But, both iranian/persian and dacian language (who form the substratum of romanian language) are related indo-european languages, and getae/dacians and iranians/persians was a kind of "cousins" if you wish so more then probably some words was similar or close in both languages coming from the same roots. Even today is possible that some words from both languages (romanian and persian) to be similar and i remember i read somwhere about this on a traveler from begining of XX century, but i am not sure was an expression in old sanskrit or persian, who sound almost the same as the one in romanian (who is a romance language, but with dacian roots). It was "da-mi apa", or "dati-mi apa", not remember exactly, meaning "give me water" or "give me some water", and he was understand by peoples there, so thats why i am curious to know how this is said in persian language?
 And, not sure how you celebrate there the New Year, but i wish you a Happy new one anyway, and ofcourse, wish that to all members of the forum.


Edited by diegis1 - 31-Dec-2009 at 04:23
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 14:02
"DeJ"=Divine origin(Y=J).Is it means something for both of You from historical point?I am hearing about inscriptions first time.Are they with Inclined script?
Back to Top
Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
King of Kings

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2012 at 03:20
Originally posted by medenaywe

"DeJ"=Divine origin(Y=J).Is it means something for both of You from historical point?I am hearing about inscriptions first time.Are they with Inclined script?
 
As I said Dej just means "fortress" in Persian, the inscription is in Cuneiform script.
 
Back to Top
benzin View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 08-Jun-2011
Location: Hungary
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 89
  Quote benzin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2012 at 05:24
Local Agatyhrsi joined Persians in their war against the Scythes, probably the inscription of Dareios in Szamosújlak (Gherle) is the sign of their union.
Back to Top
diegis1 View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 23-Dec-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote diegis1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2012 at 14:36
Originally posted by benzin

Local Agatyhrsi joined Persians in their war against the Scythes, probably the inscription of Dareios in Szamosújlak (Gherle) is the sign of their union.


Not quite. Getae tribes from southern areas fight against Darius (they was the only one figthing against him actually) but was defeated and forced to provide some troops for him.
Darius followed the sea coast line through today Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine, to reach the Scythians in the stepes north of Black Sea. Scythians however retreated on those large stepes and Darius was unsuccessful to meet them on a head on battle.
Darius retreated back to Asia Minor (today Anatolia) and Scythians followed after him, ones of them trying to enter in Dacia (well, Getae/Dacian teritories).

They was meet however by Agathyrsi somewhere in Carpahtians, who drow them back in stepes. Agathyrsi was a Thraco-Getian tribe with Iranic (possible Scythian) influences or mixed partialy with them, however before Persian expedition and unrelated with it (other Getae/Iranic mixes are probably Massa-Getae and Tisa-Getae tribes mentioned clearly as different/not belonging to Scythians by Herodotus). They was already fully "Thracianized" however in time when Herodotus mentioned them (as archeology say too) and was just one of the Thraco-Getian tribes of Transylvania, located indeed near Gherla


Edited by diegis1 - 11-Jun-2012 at 14:40
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2012 at 20:29
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.