Is this Democracy ? I think not !

There is no democracy in the world, the countries you think democratic are actually polirchy... Read Robert A. Dahl 

The BNP should be banned and its leaders imprisoned. The Nazis were freely elected and invited into government by a chancelor eager to "consult and liase" with them (crazy idea as fascist beliefs are incompatible with democracy). As soon as the Nazis gained power they worked to destroy German democracy and persecute the Jews. Should the BNP ever gain power i'll be the first to take up arms against them

There is no subject I like better than democracy.  

This thread begins with two points.

Is a nation obliged to accept immigrants?  No.  A home and country are similar.  We must have the right to chose who can enter our homes/country and who can not, or there is chaos, and chaos is very destructive. 

On the other hand, in the beginning of the US, it was made very clear the colonies to become states were united, and a citizens could expect the same rights in all of them, because we not citizens of a state, but citizens of a nation of united states.   Europe and Britain can seem a bit odd to us, because these are little countries that not united as the United States are united. 

So in the case of the first point, the action is that of the head of a household, and this authority is a good thing.  I will label as the male aspect of a home, or nation, and say I believe this is a necessary aspect of our homes and country.   However, the second point....

The other point is a matter of good manners that is essential to peaceful relationships.  I think we could say, this is the feminine aspect of a home or country.  You are very right to say preventing open and extensive communication smells of tyranny and causes trouble.  We are dealing with this problem in these forums and I am excitedly curious about people here will deal with this.   This is a manner of honor and tyranny is it not?  Are not you questioning the honor of those in power if they claim to be democratic and do not act that way?  It is alarming when we fear those in power are not honorable people, but are abusing power and are lying to us.    I think it is important that we are united when this happens and take what steps that might be taken to resolve this problem.  That is how democracy and our liberty is defended.   But I warn you to go gently, because authority is a good thing, and we do not want to destroy it, especially not when it is making the difficult and necessary decisions.   Be careful in your judgment of the authority's judgment, because you may want to follow their lead? 

I must say, it is so important we discuss these issues and principles, because the whole planet has come to a critical point.  Will we live by brute force and under tyrants?  Will we be foolish and destroy authority, and throw ourselves in chaos?  Will we achieve the rule by reason that the people of Athens and the Iroquois Nation thought possible?   How about making birth control easily accessible to everyone in the world?    If we reduce our numbers enough we can enjoy the space to have freedom and avoid stepping on each others' toes.  Seriously, I don't want all the homeless people entering my home expecting me to provide for them.  We have to get serious about the reality of a finite planet.   But here we are.  Now how do we deal with the result of mulitiply as though our reality is infinite.  


Edited by Athena - 30-Apr-2011 at 12:29

Dear Red, I fully realized what I was saying.  I gained this point of view during the 1970 recession.  It seems obvious when there is a high unemployment rate, and it takes five years "professional" shoe shining experience, to get a job shining shoes, we have too many people.   But then I have also read books concerned about over population and  exponential growth rates.   Each human being added, means an increase in the need for water, more sewage capacity, and more everything.  There comes a tipping point when growth becomes a bad thing. 

I remember when the electric company was promoting the use of electricity.  Now the electric company in my city, is promoting energy efficiency because the challenge of generating more electricity is becoming prohibitive.  This goes with housing that was dirt cheap and came with enough ground to plant a garden and have a patio, to housing that is now unaffordable, even when the yard is too small for a garden, and the size of the house has shrunk.  I look with horror at the tiny houses, with tiny yards that are on the market today.  At the same time private property owners are in a battle with land developers who want to build multi-family housing, arguing how more people will degrade the neighborhood and increase the cost of public schools and everything else.  And I really feel sick when the land being consumed by land developers is farm land!  

Now who has a right to make the decisions about land and resource use?  The immigrants?  I am sorry, but there is a limit to growth, and we need to get real about this, and to teach the world to be realistic about life on a finite planet.  Heaven on earth requires using our intelligence as well as our hearts. 

We have created virtual picture,our wishes do not depend of resources we have!That's our consumers model, have used as "idol" inside economic systems that were created during last 2000 years at least. Consumers were created with main goal,products have been wasted by someone.Among the rest we are eating,living,reproducing without asking ourselves:Is this result of commercials or we really need this way. Cause of that we are,fat and sick and wisholic, against real earth's possibilities.Depressions could be only results of that.Economic or psychotic,it doesn't matter at all.Overpopulated,there are only survival law rules,we can obey.Consumers model was a trap:If we need jobs would create products.If we have jobs we need people products have to be spent.We create diversity of products cause we need no unemployed  people.Chain,Chain,Chain...Chain on You.Every time,chain would have been broken,wars were on.Where do there are survival we can not speak  about democracy,cause democracy  have to eat!Here  you are,beautiful song. Can not yield to temptation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmYWGjFFs4k 





Edited by medenaywe - 01-May-2011 at 16:08

They should also consider problems such as population aging.

Originally posted by ralfy They should also consider problems such as population aging.

Why?  The old folks die. end of problem. 

Originally posted by Athena Originally posted by cavalry4ever Originally posted by erkut There is no democracy in the world, the countries you think democratic are actually polirchy... Read Robert A. Dahl  Good point. Most of what we consider democracies are republics with more or less representative form of government. The basic republic is based on Oligarchy. In US the founding fathers did not trust a common man to make sound choices so they created an oligarchy based republic we struggle with to this day. I think uneducated people like icons and mythology and this fits well with it.  Did you know that in US 41 senators (41% of the senate) and representing 17% of US population could block any legislation in the senate? Which type of democracy this represents? Okay, but how about the idea that government should be limited?  Our problem is not just an oligarchy, but the power they have with modern bureaucratic technology, enabling them to control the minutest details of our lives.   The organization of the bureaucracy above us today, crushes individual liberty and power.  "In the past, personal and political liberty depended to a considerable extent upon government inefficiency.  the spirit of tyranny was always more than willing; but its organization and material equipment were generally weak.  Progressive science and technology have changed all this completely".  Aldous Huxley I want to talk about what destroying the family has to do with weakening with democracy, but don't know if there is enough interest in that?