Why do Turks think they are so brave?

Because most of the wars we have fought, we have been out numbered very significantly.  This never bothered us, we just run towards the enemy without an ounce of fear in us, and most of the time we would win.  Just look up any important war in Turkish history, in ancient or modern times.  Also, look up the definition for the word "Turk" in english.  Other than it meaning the Turkish people, it also means fearless.  If a language defined this word like this, I'm sure there's a reason.

If you mean the Greco-Persian Wars then Greeks were doubtlessly more than Persians because there were many Greeks in the Persian army too!

Originally posted by Feramez Because most of the wars we have fought, we have been out numbered very significantly.  This never bothered us, we just run towards the enemy without an ounce of fear in us, and most of the time we would win.  Just look up any important war in Turkish history, in ancient or modern times.  Also, look up the definition for the word "Turk" in english.  Other than it meaning the Turkish people, it also means fearless.  If a language defined this word like this, I'm sure there's a reason.

1. Can you give some examples of where Turks were outnumbered and were victorious against overwhelming odds? I have heard of Greeks being outnumbered (as Spartakus said), Israelis being outnumbered, British being outnumbered but not Turks.

I have looked up Turkish History my friend, very closely, and yet i find no example or reason that suggests Turks are any more braver than others, perhaps you can point me to some examples of Turkish Bravery?

2. I looked up the word "Turk", again no sign of bravery


Turk    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (t�rk)
n.

1. A native or inhabitant of Turkey.
2. A member of the principal ethnic group of modern-day Turkey or, formerly, of the Ottoman Empire.
3. A member of any of the Turkic-speaking peoples.
4. Obsolete. A Muslim.

Originally posted by Feramez The most recent best example is when Turkey fought for their independence after the Ottoman Empire collapsed. We had nothing and were very un-organized but managed to defeat all the invading armies, Greece, England, Italy, France, Australia and New Zealand. During the Korean War, Turks came in and won some important battles. In some cases while American soldiers would retreat, the Turks would charge up hills towards the enemy with no amo, many died from gun fire during the charge but when the Turks reached the enemy they demolished them just with their bayonetts. I don't know too many specifics on the Turkish involvement on the Korean war, just basics. However, I have met many American men who fought in the Korean war and would know I'm Turkish just by my name, they would always tell me stories on their experiences fighting along side with Turks and that they are the most fearless and disciplined soldiers they have ever met. I don't have any sources on the Turkish definition but when I get it, I'll post it for you.

I dont understand how you can say "we had nothing", strictly speaking you "had a empire" until 1924, that is more resources then all your neighbours (including the Arabs and the Greeks).

- Yes Turks defended against Italians but ultimately lost Libya to them.
- Yes they defended against the French but ultimately lost Egypt and parts of Syria to them.
- Yes they defended and defeated the British(with Aussies and Kiwis) at Gallipoli but ultimately lost the war. At Gallipoli Kemal Attaturk was main cause for victory, but even he lost to Edmund.H. Allenby in Palestine, ultimately losing all of Palestine to the British.

Whats more Istanbul was occupied by the allies, and the Greeks eventually defeated the Turks and occupied Izmir - although they were later kicked out again.

Im sure the Turks fought bravely in the Korean War, as did many others but this doesnt quite swing the tables in your favour, we need more examples please.

note; i may sound biased here but im just examining the facts and trying to understand the Turkish mindset.




Edited by wiseking

What about Battle of Manzikert?

About the war of Manzikert and the rise of Turkish power in middle east:

Turkish history is full of braveary. Just look at our conquest of Anatolia. Some Turkmen wariors from Northern Sogdiana firstly unified and formed the Seljuk Beghlik. Then, they fought against some huge powers of that region, and opened their way to Khorasan. They fought the Gaznavids and they invaded Iran. Then, they reached middle east and They earned the title of "the ruler of both east and the west" from the Abbasid Caliphate.

After that, they conquered Caucases, Mesopotamia and parts of the Arabian peninsula including the holy cities. Finally, these couple of Turkmen wariors build themselves a great empire from a nomadic past. 

But their mission wasnt over. From now on, they ruled the Islamic world, but they wanted to unify all Muslims under their rule. So the continiued their conquests. But the Byzanthines tought they were dangerous treats for their empire, so they fought with Seljuks. And finally, the Byzanthine emperor, Romenos Diogenes who was ruling a huge army of soldiers from all over the empire, moved his army to eastern Anatolia to invade Seljuk empire. Alparslan was on Syria conquest with a small army, and when he heard about the Byzanthine army moving towards his empire, he ended his conquest and met with the huge Byzanthine army in Manzikert, 1071. The Byzanthine army was huge and armed heavily, but the Turkish soldiers didnt care about it at all. So they fought and beat the Byzanthine army. They also captured the Byzanthine emperor, Romenos Diogenes from his heavy army.

Then, these Turkmen tribes from northern Sogdiana ruled lands from central asia, todays Kyrgizistan in the east, to Aegean Sea in the west, from Aral sea and Caucases in the north to southern Arabic peninsula in south.

Who do you think was outnumbered and disadvantaged? The Byzanthines, Gaznavids, Abbasids and all ther powers of middle east and west central asia with their treasures and military , or some nomadic Turkmen tribes from Aral sea region?

Molana Rumi says about Turks:

Ey Turk chera be zolf chon Hinduee
Rumi rokh o Zangi khat o por chin muee

Natvan del-e khod be khata gom kardan
Tarsam ke to Turki o be Turki guee

He wants to ask a Turk why they are similar to Indians, Romans and Africans but he won't ask it becuase they are Turks, so they will answer it in Turkish!

without a shadow of a doubt, turks in regard to history have been the bravest and often most skilled warriors in the world. in iran there is a saying turk-e-khar (the turk is a donkey or stupid turk) This was infact created upon the image of jealousy because they could not achieve or exceed the way the turks have. For more examples just look at the seljuk invasion of iran and the islamic world. they re-invented the parthian shot and crated  another form of the persian empire where the persains taught the turks arabic and made soldiers out of them securing the fronts of ancient persia as it had been in achemeniad times. this all happened at a time where the legacy of the arab caliphate had worn out and and persian power was on the rise. the persian created a puppet regime out of the turks because they were so miltarily affective. an arab scholar once told a historian that 1 seljuk soldier is worth 300 sons. imagine what it would take for an arab to acknowledge this. The turks of the ottoman emprie lodged themselves into asia minor by decimating the byzantine empire and fragmenting the persian one in order to restore the islamic caliphate which they believed continued through them. no other race could accomplish this and at the efficient speed the turks have. from day 1 in siberia by defeating central asian tribes and tartars turks have been a warlike people. the ottoman empire was united by the sword and divided by the pen. more evidence of this is found in the books, lords of the horizons a history of the ottoman and empire, and The ottoman centuries. when the tuks were at the gates of vienna all of euope was tembling. the turks also took advantage of persian court corruption and separted iraq(nimrod) from persia in 1799. just the way you greeks look at the battle of thermoplyea as a source of warlike strength where you halted 2.5 million persians with 300 spartans and 10,000 thespians(and slaves), the turks look at all their wars as victories and when you understand that turks are a race not a nation you will know why they are the warrior race as described by all. 

Kouros, nice post.  It's good a non-Turk said something.  And you are right, one of the problems why people can't see our bravery and skill is because they just look at the Turks of the nation Turkey.  Other Turkish tribes and nations have fought great wars and shown great military skill and bravery.  Thracian, No, it is not the other way around.

Originally posted by Kouros just the way you greeks look at the battle of thermoplyea as a source of warlike strength where you halted 2.5 million persians with 300 spartans and 10,000 thespians(and slaves), the turks look at all their wars as victories and when you understand that turks are a race not a nation you will know why they are the warrior race as described by all.

First mistake:in battle of Thermopylea Persians were not  2.5 million.It's pretty impossible.Second mistake:the Hellenic forces which left to fight were 300 Spartans and 1.000 Thespians.Looking at Thespian history and the size of their city there is no way that they could manage to gather such forces.If you told me that the Athenians were 10.000 that would make sense,but the Thespians.....it's ridiculous.Third mistake.Turks?It is pretty convenient to say that you are a race and not a nation.Then in your logic let's take the relatives of Persia and put them all together,or the relatives of Hellas(rest Indo-Europeans) and put them together,or the relatives of semitic origin and put them together.That's not a good statement.You have to choose.Fourth mistakeo not try to compare a nation with a race,because even if we accept your view,Hellas is not inferior to the Turks in the mlitary field.Alexander reached India with some more than 100.000  Hellens,fighting against much bigger armies.