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European way to world primacy.
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Maximus Germanicus I View Drop Down
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Maximus Germanicus I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: European way to world primacy.
    Posted: 26-Jun-2010 at 01:47
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by WolfHound85

Eh every civilization had their heyday. During the Middle Ages, Europe was nothing and contributed nothing towards civilization. It wasn't until humanism and secularism became prominent, that Europe began to become a global force. The Arabs had a great civilization before Europe, so did the Chinese, and the Indians(India). 


What do you mean? The term dark ages is no longer used and if you really study western civilization you will discover, for yourself, that many great innovations were created in the medieval period. You also forget about the Byzantine or E. Roman Empire. Much of what made the Arabs great was built upon: Greek, Indian and Persian culture. The Arabs had to rely on the Greeks or really Romans to administer their new Empire, after the conquest of Byzantine lands.I am sure the same can be said about Persian lands.

Many of the great works that the Muslims claim were saved by them were translated by Christian Monks; Greek or Syrian. The Arab conquerors were illiterate nomads, like most in Western Europe of that time. The Byzantines were very literate and never went into a Dark Age. I suggest reading "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades" by Robert Spencer.

I would suggest studying Medieval European history and get your facts straight my friend.
 
Amen!!
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2010 at 13:13
Originally posted by Maximus Germanicus I

Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by WolfHound85

Eh every civilization had their heyday. During the Middle Ages, Europe was nothing and contributed nothing towards civilization. It wasn't until humanism and secularism became prominent, that Europe began to become a global force. The Arabs had a great civilization before Europe, so did the Chinese, and the Indians(India). 
What do you mean? The term dark ages is no longer used and if you really study western civilization you will discover, for yourself, that many great innovations were created in the medieval period. You also forget about the Byzantine or E. Roman Empire. Much of what made the Arabs great was built upon: Greek, Indian and Persian culture. The Arabs had to rely on the Greeks or really Romans to administer their new Empire, after the conquest of Byzantine lands.I am sure the same can be said about Persian lands. Many of the great works that the Muslims claim were saved by them were translated by Christian Monks; Greek or Syrian. The Arab conquerors were illiterate nomads, like most in Western Europe of that time. The Byzantines were very literate and never went into a Dark Age. I suggest reading "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades" by Robert Spencer. I would suggest studying Medieval European history and get your facts straight my friend.

 

Amen!!


Thanks Maximus Germanicus I - LOL
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2010 at 17:03
The Middle Ages do have a rather bad reputation after all, not entirely deserved.
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 17:23
Well, I can play the role of Advocatus Diaboli.
 
Considering the light of antic and its achievements one can say that after the fall of Western Roman empire dark ages really did come to Europe. Instead of educated society, at least literated society, came long centuries during which the skill of reading and writing were limited to very small percentage of population. Ancient Rome was full of lawyers, writers, poets, teachers of philosophy, artists but later came illiterate barbarians who only knew how to fight. The cities of ancient Europe became much smaller, books became rare and those which survived were mostly stored beyound the borders of fromer western empire. Such inventions like aqueduckts, baths or sewer systems were not repaired and slowly felt into ruins. In Europe the times between the fall of empire and at least 12th - 13th century were dark ages. Even the customs of people changed for worse... especially condering personal hygiene.....
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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eaglecap View Drop Down
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 17:46
Originally posted by Mosquito

Well, I can play the role of Advocatus Diaboli.



 

Considering the light of antic and its achievements one can say that after the fall of Western Roman empire dark ages really did come to Europe. Instead of educated society, at least literated society, came long centuries during which the skill of reading and writing were limited to very small percentage of population. Ancient Rome was full of lawyers, writers, poets, teachers of philosophy, artists but later came illiterate barbarians who only knew how to fight. The cities of ancient Europe became much smaller, books became rare and those which survived were mostly stored beyound the borders of fromer western empire. Such inventions like aqueduckts, baths or sewer systems were not repaired and slowly felt into ruins. In Europe the times between the fall of empire and at least 12th - 13th century were dark ages. Even the customs of people changed for worse... especially condering personal hygiene.....


Yes these things are true about the west but the Byzantine Empire (E. Roman) did that fall to the barbrians until after the Battle of Manzikert and the loss of her Italian territories to the Normans. (aside from the Slavic invasions)

The Literacy rate amongst the Byzantines, in the larger towns and cities, was very high. Most modern scholars who study medieval history, like Dr. Madden or Dr. Thomas Asbridge, say the term dark age has been outdated. Plus, if you study medieval history there were a number of innovations. I suggest reading: Defending the West by Ibn Warraq
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posts: 2537 		  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jun-2010 at 18:08
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by Mosquito

Well, I can play the role of Advocatus Diaboli.



 

Considering the light of antic and its achievements one can say that after the fall of Western Roman empire dark ages really did come to Europe. Instead of educated society, at least literated society, came long centuries during which the skill of reading and writing were limited to very small percentage of population. Ancient Rome was full of lawyers, writers, poets, teachers of philosophy, artists but later came illiterate barbarians who only knew how to fight. The cities of ancient Europe became much smaller, books became rare and those which survived were mostly stored beyound the borders of fromer western empire. Such inventions like aqueduckts, baths or sewer systems were not repaired and slowly felt into ruins. In Europe the times between the fall of empire and at least 12th - 13th century were dark ages. Even the customs of people changed for worse... especially condering personal hygiene.....


Yes these things are true about the west but the Byzantine Empire (E. Roman) did that fall to the barbrians until after the Battle of Manzikert and the loss of her Italian territories to the Normans. (aside from the Slavic invasions)

The Literacy rate amongst the Byzantines, in the larger towns and cities, was very high. Most modern scholars who study medieval history, like Dr. Madden or Dr. Thomas Asbridge, say the term dark age has been outdated. Plus, if you study medieval history there were a number of innovations. I suggest reading: Defending the West by Ibn Warraq
 
 
Ok but im talking about west, not about Eastern Empire. The fall of the cities, the fall of the culture, the fall of the literacy in the west are truth.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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WLC81 View Drop Down
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Posts: 9 		  Quote WLC81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 02:16
Believe me, most of ancient Greek and Roman culture was saved by the Byzantine Empire. And Byzantine Empire fell only in 1453. Therefore the arabic "saviour" of ancient European culture is false.

Did you see the Battle of Mohács video ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVyuech2LCI 
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 13:52
Oh dear are people bandying about the term Dark Ages (disapproving finger wagging)

Dark Ages is a very outdated term, they're never as dark as has been made out. Certainly if you're going to compare it to Rome then you are always going to result with a very negative image.
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 14:41
Originally posted by DreamWeaver

Oh dear are people bandying about the term Dark Ages (disapproving finger wagging)Dark Ages is a very outdated term, they're never as dark as has been made out. Certainly if you're going to compare it to Rome then you are always going to result with a very negative image.


How about the Dark Age of Greece? Or that of Mesopatamia? Or Egypt (at least two of them), and even Israel (No David or Solomon!) Or any of the other "dark ages" that seem to have existed in the past?

Some times they are not called "dark ages" they are called "interegnums" or "intermediate periods?"
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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Posts: 555 		  Quote DreamWeaver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2010 at 03:30
For other periodic dark ages, I know not, you would have to ask some one with a greater specialisation in those fields. But The Dark Ages, that rather eurocentric term expressing a particular time period in european history, is just out.


Whats in a name? An awful lot
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Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2010 at 16:27
Interestingly the name of this topic is;

The European way to world primacy"


Just why is this interesting, well recently the president of the USA, told the Europeans to keep pouring money into the system to save it, while the Europeans, are beginning to remove money from the system to save it!

If "Europeans" really have the way to "primacy" then perhaps the president of the USA and his minions, might well listen to them?

But, of course, I am often wrong!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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eaglecap View Drop Down
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jul-2010 at 13:09
Originally posted by WLC81

Believe me, most of ancient Greek and Roman culture was saved by the Byzantine Empire. And Byzantine Empire fell only in 1453. Therefore the arabic "saviour" of ancient European culture is false.
Did you see the Battle of Mohács video ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVyuech2LCI 


Amen to that!
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Maximus Germanicus I View Drop Down
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Maximus Germanicus I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2010 at 01:37
Originally posted by DreamWeaver

Oh dear are people bandying about the term Dark Ages (disapproving finger wagging)

Dark Ages is a very outdated term, they're never as dark as has been made out. Certainly if you're going to compare it to Rome then you are always going to result with a very negative image.
 
In Cahills how the Irish saved civ-He paints a rather illumanting picture of the so called "Dark Ages" I agree that the term is not accurate. It was a transition period that really laid the foundations for Modern Europe.
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