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Creation of Kurdistan (PKK's holy goal)

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Beylerbeyi View Drop Down
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Creation of Kurdistan (PKK's holy goal)
    Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 18:05
The question is:  do they love you?
Ha ha. Yea, that is the real question.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 18:09
Suren
Bulldog what do you think about Iranian Azeris? Do you consider them under pressure or not?


Personally I think its better for countries to resolve their own issues themselves, if Iran was to treat their minorities better for example allowing more Iranian Azeri language and cultural freedoms and stops  treating  those who campaign for these rights as criminals and Pan-Turkists then those who wish to stir trouble outside Iran would have less wood to burn in the fire.

I don't think it matters is Turks are under Persian rule, Kurds under Turkish rule, or Arabs under Kurdish rule as long as their are fair rulers/governments and the state gives full rights and treats all citizens the same ie full rights to speak, learn and broadcast in their languages.

Cyrus
From thousands years ago, ancient Assyrians, Greeks, you Turks, Arabs, Mongols and several other nations tried to destroy Iranians people but no one could do it, that will be just a regime change for us, nothing more.


Let me guess, an Iranian has no friend except an Iranian.


Edited by Bulldog - 26-Jan-2009 at 18:10
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 18:13
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Bulldog

In other words you want to see the destruction of the Iranian people.
From thousands years ago, ancient Assyrians, Greeks, you Turks, Arabs, Mongols and several other nations tried to destroy Iranians people but no one could do it, that will be just a regime change for us, nothing more.


By that definition there is no reason for a Kurdistan, because it is "just regime change" after all.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 18:51
Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We Iranian people who love our country are also alongside Pkk, Israel and USA against IRI.

 
The question is:  do they love you?
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 19:26
Cyrus
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!


Whose your enemy and who are their enemies


Edited by Bulldog - 26-Jan-2009 at 19:26
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 19:37
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We Iranian people who love our country are also alongside Pkk, Israel and USA against IRI.

 
The question is:  do they love you?
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!
 
You must have a lot of friends then!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 19:40
Originally posted by Bulldog

Cyrus
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!


Whose your enemy and who are their enemies


Let him compile a Encyclopedia first then he can answer in full. Star
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 10:32
Originally posted by Bulldog

Leonadis
Greeks, Turks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Kosovans and even 'Montenegrins' got one, why shouldn't these guys?


Did they just "get" one...

This argument is very childish, everyone doesn't get everything they want and certainly don't get it handed on a silver plate just because they think they "deserve" something. It hasn't worked very well in the Balkans has it.

Kurds have been succesful in Northern Iraq, they used the situation to their advantage and have created a Kurdish region. Therefore they have a country or almost a country and hopefully they do well. However, in my opinion if they persue a Pan-Kurdish state it won't last long.

Also the Kurdish area in Northern Iraq isn't ruled by PKK, infact in the future it's likely that they'll start fighting with the Pkk again over disagreements about how the region should be governed, who is the strongest Kurdish faction and if the current leaders in the region make deals with Turkey, Iran and Syria.

yeah i know the situation a bit better than the average guy, thanks for the re-capErmm.

You completely ignored the important bit and cherry picked a statement to then monologue back on hmmm.. I asked you a pretty straight question since your being such a smart arse with all that 'why not let the gypsies' line

... what makes them different to you and me that they should not have that choice?

that's all, if your read my posts above you'd should guess i already know its not a simple subject in practice. On this question I am simply asking on a moral level and nothing more.



Edited by Leonidas - 27-Jan-2009 at 10:57
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 10:56
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We Iranian people who love our country are also alongside Pkk, Israel and USA against IRI.

 
The question is:  do they love you?
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!
Israel and the USA are your enemies and how that makes the PKK your friend is beyond me. Lets get the basic situation as i understand it;
  • Turkey, the Anglo's and Israel are on the same side* 
  • Arab Puppets pick up the tab and make sure there looks like opposition to all of this but..sshhh... do nothing. - Freinds?
  • PKK-PJAK gets used by the US and Isreal agianst Iran (apparently they take the money more than they fight- the US getting ripped off ha!) - Freinds?
  • Turkey and Iran get together every so often and bomb PKK-PJAK bases (mainly Turkey as a insurance agianst overspill and the domestic audiance)- Freinds?
  •  But all of them do not want a powerful Iran.
    • The west will mess with your government, Islamic or demorcatic as soon as it is strong and independant. Turks wouldnt want a true regional rival, and the Arabs certainly dont want to deal with - look at them now.
where is the love? None of these guys seem to do the right thing by each other, let alone Iran. The Mullahs may be a-holes but your independent.

* Yeah, tensions here and there;  but even with Gaza getting bombed you dont get Obama doing anything more than sending a a high profile envoy or expect some changes on the edges (important ones maybe, but not revolutaionary). Erdogan IIRC said , in regards to the Isreali-Turk military pact to some protesting parlimantarians- along the lines of 'this is not a supermarket this is the Turkish republic'. Get the drift?


Edited by Leonidas - 27-Jan-2009 at 10:59
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 11:25
Misery of the racist, really... No need to try to talk sense.   
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 11:27
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi


For others posting here, PKK's goal is a 'democratic confederation in Turkey', for a decade now, not an independent Kurdistan. 
I did some further reading on the PKk sometime in 2008 for another thread. From memory there seems to be two or three factions, one is much more hard line and wants the military solution (and benefits from Turkish military-driven hardline policy) the other takes the softer political line, i cant remember which one is headquartered in the Kandil range. I am not sure if all factions agree with that goal though.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 12:21
Our enemy is just the current regime of Iran, so USA and Israel are in fact the best friends of Iranian people.
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 12:41
Our enemy is just the current regime of Iran, so USA and Israel are in fact the best friends of Iranian people.
You'll have time to reconsider this when your friends will bomb Iran and angry Iranians will put traitors like you to the wall.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 15:28

you so far made two threads in defense of Israel, both thread are clearly with intention to provoke other members not to discuss with them, not that successful sadly for you.

So Cyrus Shamiri why dont you make a thread about why you love israel and how is your enemy's enemy is your friend, some thing like a paragraph not a one sentence post?!!

its better than those thread which most posts in them are off topic.


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  Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 17:18
Hello Cyrus
 
If you really love Israel so much why don't you immigrate there? They will welcome you with open arms but keep in mind, once they finish the business with Iran you will be like a used tissue to them and if you don't believe just see what did they did to their Palestinian agents who gave their own brothers and parents for sex and some dollars.
 
Once the bombs start falling, everyone in Iran will be a Khomaini in the making and in the end you will pay the tap not the Americans or the Israelis.
 
Al-Jassas
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 17:54
Do you love Mullahs of Iran for this reason that they are considered to be the worse enemy of Israel? Do you think all peoples who hate Israel, love each other? I think people of Gaza see the supporting role of the rulers of Iran about themselves just as people of Iran see the rulers of Israel. None of us believe those are our lovers!
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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 17:59
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Our enemy is just the current regime of Iran, so USA and Israel are in fact the best friends of Iranian people.
Funny man you are
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 18:09
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

We Iranian people who love our country are also alongside Pkk, Israel and USA against IRI.

 
The question is:  do they love you?
People usually seek their own benefits, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend!

So, Saddam was in the list.
"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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  Quote Evrenosgazi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 18:11
First of all I want to congratulate Cyrus for another provocative subject. I have some questions if you want to answer.
 
- Are you really Iranian?
- Are you an agent of Israel?
 
The kurds in Turkey are spreaded around the country with millions in Istanbul,Ankara, Izmir etc. As turks living in millions east anatolia. I know that the ethnic subject of Turkey attracts people whom had animosity against us but as you see this threads are the most idiotic ones.
 
Cyrus when you say kurds Iranic, as a reaction I would remind you about the azeris in your country. Dont try to provocate us with using PKK 
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 18:17
Kurds are the third biggest ethnicity in the Middle East, after Arabs and Turks. Their nationalism's roots go back to the Azadi Committee ,  in the early 20's.In Iran (Republic of Mahabad), Iraq ( KDP) and in Turkey (PKK) they fought bloody wars for an independent state.So, do these facts justify the creation of a Kurdish State?

Simple question. Yet, when the Ottoman Empire collapsed, Kurds found themselves in 4 different States. With the term Kurd, we refer to a quite diverse body of people, geographically, religiously, and liguistically. They had their movements, yes, but in different historical periods and, usually, with different ideological backgrounds (for example, KDP was Conservative-Rightist and the PKK was Leninist-Marxist).

The question should be, can the creation of a Kurdish State be possible, and if yes, where could this State be located and by which Kurdish populations should be consisted?
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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