"Beating" up on Israel?

I don't see this as a trend or so. I think the problem was that Israel ofcourse was connected to Jewish people. Because of the holocaust, it was like a shame to critisize the situation in Palestine. At least, that is what i got from some people. Also, many immediately may call you anti-semitic which is idiotic since many people in the middle east are semitic.

What people don't get though is that when you critisize Israel, you don't critisize the Jewish society, nor the Jewish culture. You judge a country related to Jewish people, but all jewish people don't live in Israel nor agree with its tactics.

I have personally met a Romaniote jew once who had almost fanatical anti-israel views.

In any case, this is not a trend. It's just easier nowadays for people in some western countries to critisize. The tolerance is not high towards israel as it was before.

Originally posted by Parnell I think its a trend amongst 17-21 year olds who think they know a thing or two. Especially popular amongst those people who see 'movements' in everything. Personally, I have a real ugly disdain for politics in general, and for partisans who see the work of the 'other side' in everything. War is hell, and it is politics and the left/right divisions which perpetuate it. Everything in this world revolves around who holds the moral high ground. Soon, the self-righteous ramblings of a supposedly 'correct' radical becomes the word of God and any who disagrees with him is a moron, a racist, an imperialist, an inferior mind. Its an ugly circle but won't change anytime soon. Its humanity itself.

Originally posted by Parnell I think its a trend amongst 17-21 year olds who think they know a thing or two. Especially popular amongst those people who see 'movements' in everything. Personally, I have a real ugly disdain for politics in general, and for partisans who see the work of the 'other side' in everything. War is hell, and it is politics and the left/right divisions which perpetuate it. Everything in this world revolves around who holds the moral high ground. Soon, the self-righteous ramblings of a supposedly 'correct' radical becomes the word of God and any who disagrees with him is a moron, a racist, an imperialist, an inferior mind. Its an ugly circle but won't change anytime soon. Its humanity itself.

Actually it is not a trend at all, because intellectuals and non-activists alike agree on the issue. Yes it may be a rebellious trend to some, but that is a minuscule minority.

Some of your observations are right, but that is overall too cynical as at the end of the day these criticisms of Israel as a government are correct and documented for over fifty years. Thus no matter the "larger picture" in the world context of things when considered at its local level there are grave injustices that are ongoing and that are the cause and root of the conflict - thus perpetuating them of course begets negative effects from the other side, and in the context of this thread begets this "bashing of Israel, the government" due to the actions that they choose not to cease. I think there has been enough material posted to deduce that just in the two threads on this topic.

Originally posted by es_bih Originally posted by Parnell I think its a trend amongst 17-21 year olds who think they know a thing or two. Especially popular amongst those people who see 'movements' in everything. Personally, I have a real ugly disdain for politics in general, and for partisans who see the work of the 'other side' in everything. War is hell, and it is politics and the left/right divisions which perpetuate it. Everything in this world revolves around who holds the moral high ground. Soon, the self-righteous ramblings of a supposedly 'correct' radical becomes the word of God and any who disagrees with him is a moron, a racist, an imperialist, an inferior mind. Its an ugly circle but won't change anytime soon. Its humanity itself. Actually it is not a trend at all, because intellectuals and non-activists alike agree on the issue. Yes it may be a rebellious trend to some, but that is a minuscule minority. Some of your observations are right, but that is overall too cynical as at the end of the day these criticisms of Israel as a government are correct and documented for over fifty years. Thus no matter the "larger picture" in the world context of things when considered at its local level there are grave injustices that are ongoing and that are the cause and root of the conflict - thus perpetuating them of course begets negative effects from the other side, and in the context of this thread begets this "bashing of Israel, the government" due to the actions that they choose not to cease. I think there has been enough material posted to deduce that just in the two threads on this topic.

But when you only "bash" one side and never the other, it becomes a political ideology.  Political ideologies come in the form of trends.  It is the current trend to "bash" Israel.  Look, you can criticize Israel all you want; but you should also be able to criticize the other side.  When a person does this it gives their criticisms credibility because they are being objective and showing that they are thinking with a clear mind and really taking in the situation.  If you can't criticize the other side then, I would say, you don't fully understand the situation.  To see a situation like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as black and white is an oversimplification of the situation.  By the way all the coverage I have seen on US Media places Palestinian stories first and Israeli stories second.  An example of this would be CNN, on this channel one gets reporting like 400+ PALESTINAINS DEAD... ...Palestinians are still launching missiles.  This is hardly coverage skewed towards Israel, the first thing is always Palestinians being invaded and killed followed by a small parenthetical aside about Israel still being attacked.  I would say coverage in this manner shows the trend about which Parnell has spoken.

 

Oh come on King John, what is there to report from the other side? The rockets that fall on empty desert? or the poor Israelis terrified by fire crackers?

From sunday until now Israel killed nothing but civilians and a couple of Hamas leaders. some 200 women and Children this is what Israel killed since Sunday according to most reports and almost all of them fell in places out of range of any Hamas training camps, security installations and rocket firing ranges. Israel deliberatly attacked and distroyed 11 mosques some during prayer time to maximze the death toll. It also distroyed several schools, damaged a hospital and distroyed the two university campuses in Gaza. Yesterday Livni in Europe refused to allow humanitaria assistence to go to Gaza or to stop attacking despite Hamas's pledge to stop firing rockets. All these are war crimes by every meaning of international law a thing non of the the media you accuse of bashing Israel mention this.

What is there to report from the other side?  Well what about how effective these attacks are.  How about reporting how Hamas allows its citizens to bombard Israel with rockets (an act of war) targeting civilians (a violation of international war)? 

Originally posted by es_bih Originally posted by Parnell I think its a trend amongst 17-21 year olds who think they know a thing or two. Especially popular amongst those people who see 'movements' in everything. Personally, I have a real ugly disdain for politics in general, and for partisans who see the work of the 'other side' in everything. War is hell, and it is politics and the left/right divisions which perpetuate it. Everything in this world revolves around who holds the moral high ground. Soon, the self-righteous ramblings of a supposedly 'correct' radical becomes the word of God and any who disagrees with him is a moron, a racist, an imperialist, an inferior mind. Its an ugly circle but won't change anytime soon. Its humanity itself. Actually it is not a trend at all, because intellectuals and non-activists alike agree on the issue. Yes it may be a rebellious trend to some, but that is a minuscule minority. Some of your observations are right, but that is overall too cynical as at the end of the day these criticisms of Israel as a government are correct and documented for over fifty years. Thus no matter the "larger picture" in the world context of things when considered at its local level there are grave injustices that are ongoing and that are the cause and root of the conflict - thus perpetuating them of course begets negative effects from the other side, and in the context of this thread begets this "bashing of Israel, the government" due to the actions that they choose not to cease. I think there has been enough material posted to deduce that just in the two threads on this topic.

What personally annoys me is that I am by nature anti-zionist. Few people with a rational mind can justify a 'greater Israel' situation based on biblical teachings. Settlements, colonists, barriers, walls, military checkpoints - do you really think I agree with all of that? I am very much in Palestine's corner.

However, what I'm disagreeing with is the partisan nature of the support people give to the likes of Hamas. Hamas are a product of the medieval world, not of the modern one. I can't even recall the amount of times I've heard unyielding support for Hamas and their military philosophy. I don't care what the circumstances are but bombing a pizza shop were civilians are is plain wrong. As is an Israeli tank blowing up a Mosque. I'm not disputing that.

I see many parallels in the mentalities of people when compared to the IRA in Northern Ireland. Foreigners, particularly Americans of Irish descent have always viewed the IRA with a naieve romanticist view of a brave and courageous group of 'lads' fighting the Sassanach (The British). I see these same naieve and dangerous notions from people my own age in university. It seems like people have stopped trying to understand both sides of a conflict, studying the history or understanding the context but rather see EVERYTHING in the context of good vs. evil, right vs. wrong. The gray areas are ignored and the conflict becomes submerged in sea of naieve and incorrect romanticism which ignores the true and elusive natures of the conflict.

Thats a little silly. The suicide bomb has long since become a military tactic. In fairness, in the world of modern warfare when ak47s are being wielded against tanks, the suicide bomb is a highly potent weapon. Not justifying it or anything but its a little more complicated than regarding it as some simple act of cowardice.

...moved to the Minefield

Ok I really don't have time to argue any more on this argument Hamas is a terroist organization so they need to be wiped out. I am siding with Israel because Hamas is a Terrorist organziation. Now with Palestinians I beleive they have every right to have their own state alongside Israel. Hamas is a blight on Islamic society and like Al-Quada gives Islam a bad rep to many Americans and other people worldwide. So I couldn't care who was at war with Hamas as long as Hamas is utterly destroyed.