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Omar al Hashim
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Topic: Israel attack Gaza, December 2008 Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 07:38 |
Originally posted by Al Jassas
The UN forces can distroy the Hizb if orders came but non of the european powers want trouble.
Also, you give the Hizb more credit than they deserve. They are pure
robots and do what they are told to do. They don't give a rat's ass
about what people inside Lebanon including their electorate think about
their action plus their electorate will always vote for them no matter
what. |
I think this is wrong in nearly all respects. If Israel cannot defeat the Hizb then the UN certainly can't, and while Iran supports the Hizb, they certainly aren't calling the shots. You have to ask exactly what Hizbullah can do. It can fire rockets into Israel, and while better than the Palo fireworks they still won't do very much. While it has a very strong defensive force it is unlikely that its forces have much offensive capability against Israel. Since Israel probably is not going to repeat the mistake of sending ground forces in, the only outcome of firing rockets at Israel (Hezbullah's only option) is to get Lebanon bombed. They don't have the strength to help Gaza, only Egypt and Syria do, and as Al Jassas accurately points out those dictators are far more concerned with their position and wealth to go risking it in war. The Saudis and the Gulf could help indirectly, by using some of that money they have earmarked to, say, air condition a beach, in a more positive manner. (Aid supplies, Advertising campaigns in the US, purchasing media companies etc) However they too, are far too concerned with luxuries to do anything.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 10-Jan-2009 at 07:42
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Guests
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 10:04 |
I agree with Omar almost entirely in regards to how affairs currently stand. Personally I find it unlikely, but, in your opinion, are any security council members likely to intervene in support of the resolution recently passed? Do you think there is any hope of a legitimate vote for intervention passing?
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 10:39 |
No I don't think they'll intervene. China doesn't as a principle of their foreign policy. Russia has nothing to gain and much to loose. Europe is too weak (and probably not anti-Israeli enough to risk lives). The USA is Israel's puppet. As for the non-permanent members, Turkey is the only one with any strength. I doubt they'd do anything alone though
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Guests
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 11:31 |
I find it interesting that in this conflict Israel has received much
more flack from 'neutral' aid and humanitarian bodies. The most
prominent examples being the United Nations and the International Red
Cross who have both, in more diplomatic words, accused Israel of war
crimes. Does this reflect a more brutal treatment of civilians by the
Israeli military in this conflict, or do you think that the
international community is simply fed-up with Israel's constant human
rights abuses and war crimes?
In addition, the UN in particular has suffered quite a number of
attacks in recent years by Israeli military forces who were aware of
their positions. These have all occurred in times of harsh UN
criticism, and in the previous conflict the Israeli military threatened
to bomb any Red Cross convoys that went to help Lebanese civilians. Do
you believe it possible that the Israeli military could be deliberately
targeting UN positions for their criticism and their perceived aid of
the enemy? It is well know that Israel does not handle criticism very
well and has a very self-righteous approach to international affairs.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 16:06 |
Hello to you all
Many of those attacking Israel in those organizations are themselves jews by the way. these guys have a responsibility and they done what they should do, tell facts.
As for the Hizb, Omar, you underestimate their committment to Iran. If you know Arabic try to search youtube for Hizb graduation ceremonies. The cadits only swear to obey the Hizb leader and Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader. There is no mention of Lebanon of lebanese people. Plus the Hizb is much more powerful than people ever think. Israel can't take a major war because of the poor shape of its economy. The US is already in a dire economic situation and it even can't help Israel. A pressure from the Hizb will devastate Israel's plans and will put very strong pressure on its already limited resources. 8 years ago they could have ended the Hizb in days but they did a major mistake by withdrawing from Lebanon without distroying the Hizb.
AL-Jassas
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 19:17 |
NEWS: An injured Palestinian man prefered to die than to receive the blood transfusion from an Iranian Shia!
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mamikon
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 22:22 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
NEWS: An injured Palestinian man prefered to die than to receive the blood transfusion from an Iranian Shia! |
lol, yeah, who needs your "polluted" blood
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Ikki
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Posted: 10-Jan-2009 at 23:18 |
Originally posted by Zaitsev
I find it interesting that in this conflict Israel has received much more flack from 'neutral' aid and humanitarian bodies. The most prominent examples being the United Nations and the International Red Cross who have both, in more diplomatic words, accused Israel of war crimes. Does this reflect a more brutal treatment of civilians by the Israeli military in this conflict, or do you think that the international community is simply fed-up with Israel's constant human rights abuses and war crimes?
In addition, the UN in particular has suffered quite a number of attacks in recent years by Israeli military forces who were aware of their positions. These have all occurred in times of harsh UN criticism, and in the previous conflict the Israeli military threatened to bomb any Red Cross convoys that went to help Lebanese civilians. Do you believe it possible that the Israeli military could be deliberately targeting UN positions for their criticism and their perceived aid of the enemy? It is well know that Israel does not handle criticism very well and has a very self-righteous approach to international affairs.
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I have talk with several israelies and read their discussion in the net and they are very mistrustful with Red Cross and the UN. They have some reasons for this, they accuse to this organizations to helpe terrorists, for example:
But althought things like that could be true, they have an insane tendence to criticize UN and i think : too many times UN has gone against the expansionist plans of Israel and true, they don't care if they attack UN or Red Cross, they see this like fair attacks.
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Guests
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Posted: 11-Jan-2009 at 05:37 |
It seems that Israel is planning to enter 'stage 3' of its offensive ( Gaza hit by new Israeli strikes) . In addition there appears to be further evidence of the use of white phosphorous. The fact that this cannot be independently verified may indicate a possibility that these claims are fabricated, but simultaneously, it is the Israeli military itself that is preventing international media from entering the region which could mean they do not wish their war crimes to be observed and reported in the way they were during the Lebanon conflict.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 11-Jan-2009 at 06:38 |
Hello Cyrus
Please prove your claim because as far as I know, Palestinians haven't received any help from Iran period let alone blood supplies. Plus they accept Israeli blood so why should such a guy refusse Iranian one?
AL-Jassas
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Leonidas
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Posted: 15-Jan-2009 at 11:40 |
more than 1000 dead, Hamas is hurt but not dead, new generation of radicals will be inspired for revenge and Isreal is not safer. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7828884.stm
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Ikki
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Posted: 15-Jan-2009 at 20:59 |
Important day in Gaza, fierce combats in the heart of the city and:
UN accuses Israel over phosphorus
...
'Relentless bombardment'
In an interview with the BBC, Mr Ging, director of operations in Gaza for the UN Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa), said the area surrounding its compound had been under "relentless artillery and tank bombardment all night and all day".
Some rounds, Mr Ging said, had struck a part of the compound where about 700 residents of nearby blocks of flats were taking shelter. Three people were injured in the bombardment.
"Then an hour later, in spite of our protests and real-time discussions with the Israeli liaison, three rounds that emitted phosphorous struck the other corner of the compound," he added.
The compound is Unrwa's main distribution hub in Gaza and Mr Ging said the shells set alight part of a warehouse in which there were stored thousands of tonnes of food and medicine, and the workshop area.
The fires then threatened to engulf five fuel tankers, which had been due to be sent out that morning, but could not leave because it was too dangerous outside.
"When the fires broke out, five of our brave staff dashed down there and moved the trucks out of the area, so we avoided a massive explosion," he said.
Mr Ging told CNN the fire was very difficult to extinguish because the smoke from WP becomes toxic if water is used.
Following the incident, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon - in Israel to push for a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip - expressed his "outrage" and demanded a full explanation from the Israeli government.
"The defence minister said to me it was a grave mistake and he took it very seriously. He assured me that extra attention will be paid to UN facilities and staff and this will not be repeated," Mr Ban said.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the compound had been targeted after militants had opened fire from there.
"It is absolutely true that we were attacked from that place, but the consequences are very sad and we apologise for it," he said. "I don't think it should have happened and I'm very sorry." |
Key Hamas leader killed in Gaza
One of the top Hamas leaders in Gaza has been killed in an air strike, Hamas and Israeli officials have said.
Said Siyam, the Hamas interior minister, was killed in an air raid on his brother's home near Gaza City.
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Edited by Ikki - 15-Jan-2009 at 21:00
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Yugoslav
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Posted: 16-Jan-2009 at 18:04 |
This is really horrible. Absolutely horrible.
I do not know how I can stand in the middle and neutral after this.
No offence to any single Jewish member of our community, but what Israel just did was close to madness. Or better said, it's the Yugoslav civil wars tactics.
No offence either to our very dear and respected members from the United State, but your president (thanks god he's leaving) is a lunatic, and I greatly blame him (veto power) for all that is happening, and his and his leadership's misconception, perverted distortion and misuse of the concept of justice, freedom and democracy.
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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
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Guests
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Posted: 16-Jan-2009 at 18:45 |
GAZA topic merged with the pre-existing thread on Israel's actions.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 00:43 |
Yugoslav is not anti-jewish to be anti Isreal in such matters. Its always best to call a spade a spade, being a Jewish state doesnt give them the right to behave the way they have. Infact I find Istreal the greatest disspointment; born from the worse of European immorality and horror and now not much different themselves.
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Hebrewtext
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 13:22 |
may I start to post here, as I didn't want for long time.
personaly I feel ashame for the large amount of civil casualties and suffering of the Palestinians.
but some action was necessary to protect the life (and quality) of Israeli civilians in the south.
remember we had enough from them for the past 90 years , and that is the perspective for the "unproportional reaction" used by Israel .
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Leonidas
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 13:41 |
i think theyre feeling much the same way.
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Ikki
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 22:34 |
Well, althought not good for Hamas is a good step to stop de killing
Israel declares ceasefire in Gaza
Israel is to halt its three-week military offensive against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said.
He said Israel had achieved its aims and the unilateral ceasefire would start at 0200 (2400 GMT). But he said troops would remain in Gaza for now.
A Hamas spokesman said it would not accept one Israeli soldier in Gaza.
Nearly 1,200 Palestinians have been killed since the violence began on 27 December. Thirteen Israelis have died.
Minutes before Mr Olmert was due to speak, a rocket was fired from Gaza, a BBC producer in Gaza said.
'Goals achieved'
The Israeli prime minister's announcement came in a televised address following a late-night cabinet meeting.
Israel's "goals have been achieved, and even more", Mr Olmert said, with Hamas badly damaged both militarily and in terms of infrastructure.
But the success of the ceasefire depended on Hamas, he said.
Troops would remain in Gaza for the time being and if militant rocket fire into Israel continued, Israel would respond with force, he said.
A Hamas spokesman, Fawzi Barhum, said the group could not "accept the presence of a single [Israeli] soldier in Gaza".
Israel must withdraw completely, lift its economic blockade of Gaza and open border crossings, he said.
Hamas representatives have been taking part in talks in Cairo, brokered by Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, aimed at reaching a bilateral truce. |
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SearchAndDestroy
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Posted: 17-Jan-2009 at 22:38 |
I think this is just a politcal move to make Israel look good. Whats going to happen next is Hamas won't stop what it's doing, which I think will be obvious. Israel will then probably say they stopped, but Hamas wouldn't and are still capable of harm, and then the campaign will continue. I mean, it's pretty much a taunt to just stay in Gaza.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Dolphin
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Posted: 18-Jan-2009 at 00:17 |
The 'achievement' of goals that Israel has claimed does not include deposing Hamas, and the level of violence suffered by the general populace will probably serve to recruit many more in a stand against Israel. The ceasefire comes conveniently at the exact point of power-changeover in the USA, which must be a huge factor.
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