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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Interracial dating
    Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 02:09
Originally posted by Siege Tower

... it has been established that interracial marriage tend to produce greater genetic variation, therefore not only is it okay to date someone from different race, it should in fact be encouraged.
 
Amazing. Sorry moderators, but I can't resist the following comment.
 
After centuries of being considered inferior "mongrels" by other westerners, now it happens that Latin Americans become the "superior race" Big%20smileLOLLOL
 
It is amazing how much has changed the mentality in Europe and North-America, now that the caucasian population is heading fast to become senior citizens,  and afterwards an extinct subspecies....
 


Edited by pinguin - 23-Nov-2008 at 02:11
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 02:21
Someone should ban this mongrel. Evil%20Smile
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 10:51
Dating doesn't produce children, unless people are being surprising Bowdlerish in saying 'dating'. Smile
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 10:55
Originally posted by Northman

I think we all should hook up with partners as different from ourselves as possible in respect to colour, culture, ethnicity, etc.
One day our decendants would all look alike and the ugly face of racsism and "me better than you" attitude would be history.
 
Yet when mongrel dogs or cats for instance mate at random the result is not uniformity (or even similarity).
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 11:07
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

There was an article by a scientist on this in the New Scientist recently.

Many black males are either dead or in jail. Also the society more readily accepts black males marrying white women, but not vice versa. So black women eligible for marriage outnumber black men by a huge margin. Which means that many will never get married and have a stable family life, and they will be single parents.

I dug it out:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19926726.400-perspectives-still-a-question-of-black-vs-white.html

What needs to be done is the state to accept this situation (that many black women won't have a 'normal' family life) and move in to improve the lot of single black mothers. Fat chance of that happening with the Republican 'family values' morons running the country, blaming the women themselves for this situation. Of course they are blacks so who cares?

We'll see if Obama will change anything.
 
Hey Bey,
 
I just thought I'd point out that we agree on something. Believe it or not, it isn't the first time. Anyway, I thought I'd let you know that I think you've summed it up quite well. Smile
 
-Akolouthos
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 11:07
Originally posted by gcle2003

Dating doesn't produce children, unless people are being surprising Bowdlerish in saying 'dating'. Smile
 
LOL
 
-Akolouthos
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 12:02
Originally posted by gcle2003

... 
Yet when mongrel dogs or cats for instance mate at random the result is not uniformity (or even similarity).
 
Well, that it is not quite true.
 
If you come to certain regions of Latin America, you will find people that is very uniform looking, that are the result of mixtures that happened many centuries ago. Mixtures get estabilized with time. That's why here in South America we can distinguish mixed Peruvian, Ecuatorians, Uruguayans or Chileans almost at first sight, but to foreigners we may look all the same. We are different physically quite a bit.
 
Other curious thing is that interracial mixtures don't happen at random. If you look at interracial couples you will notice something strange: they usually look similar in facial features and body shape, even across the races. For example, if a nordic man marries a japanese woman, it usually preffer the lighter women. Latinos preffer women with similar nose and lips shapes, no matter they come in other colors, etc.
 
Notice for instance these couple. The metrics of theirs faces don't look that varied at all. This couple has narrow faces, big chin. and the same eyebrows:
here, same round eyes and "parrot-like" noses:
big nosed couple:
thin lips, narrow eyes, pointing chin, similar skin color. do you see what I mean?
  
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 23-Nov-2008 at 12:11
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 12:13
Originally posted by Siege Tower

the ethic question of interracial relationship is still yet to be debated. However, there are certain advantages of interracial marriages if you look at this issue from a scientific point of view; it has been established that interracial marriage tend to produce greater genetic variation, therefore not only is it okay to date someone from different race, it should in fact be encouraged.
 
This is a rather simplistic statement.
The fact is; what we consider as a "race" in the modern sense has a very short history compared to the history of Homo Sapiens.
From 200,000 years ago, humans were already 100% humans; yet the physionomy of humans has evolved considerably over all these mileniums. Human beings who lived only 10,000 years ago were physically different to what we look like now.
Blond hair only occured some 10,000 years ago; and only between 10,000 and 20,000 years ago did the mutation leading to "white skin" take place.
 
Genetic testing has revealed that "Otzi the Iceman": the frozen Neolithic corpse of a 5000-year-old sheppard found in the Alps; belonged to a "race" of mankind that is now extinct. (his halogroups did not belong to any of those in the modern living population) And 5000 years is a relatively short period of time. Some of the Egyptian pyramids were built 5000 years ago.
 
We also have to bare in mind that many of what we call "pure" races now, like Nordics or Japanese, are products of pre-historic mixtures of other races.
 
What mixing would produce will be offspring who look different to what we do now; but it will not ever make the world's population homogeneous.
Even if European, Asian, American, and African geness are distributed evenly throughout mankind, the differing climate and living conditions in each continent will lead to further mutations, leading to further genetic diversity.
 
To be more cynical; even if all the population in the world were "racially homogeneous", racism would still exist, because human beings will find other ways to divide ourselves into "us" and "them".
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 12:28
Originally posted by calvo

... 
To be more cynical; even if all the population in the world were "racially homogeneous", racism would still exist, because human beings will find other ways to divide ourselves into "us" and "them".
 
 
You bet. It is quite well known in the Americas that different degrees of mixing discriminate each other. I see it in my country where castizos (1:4 native, 3:4 european) and mestizos (1:2 european and 1:2 native) don't like pure Amerindians. Or in Cuba and Brazil where mulattos (1:2 black and 1:2 european) look down upon Blacks. etc.What's more, even if racism dissapear, nationalism, classism, colorism and ancestry will still divide people in small groups that won't like each other. 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 23-Nov-2008 at 12:33
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 13:50
One day our decendants would all look alike and the ugly face of racsism and "me better than you" attitude would be history.


See North, I think that even though it would eliminate racism there would still be discrimination.

I do not believe that uniformity should be the goal, but tolerance of diversity. If we are taught that different does not equal inferior, then we can accept those different then us more readily. Think of it this way in the future we are all one race but when someone has an child with a birth defect that family would be looked down upon due to a cultural taboo. Whereas if you had many different types of people, then everyone would be humanized and prejudice would also disappear in all forms. Mind you this may be a utopic view of the world though.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:13

You miss the point if you think you will stop discrimination with teaching alone. People discriminate the people that looks different because that is part of our animal hardwire programming. Animals in the jungle are very selective with the couples they choose to mate. A different tone of feather or proportion of the body will produce an immediate rejection.

Unfortunatelly, when you push people of different aspect upon populations that aren't accustum to them, it is almost inevitable that rejection follows. If you push to much, hate
 can exploit. It is not easy to deal with the crazy past of human beings.
 
 
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Posts: 846 		  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:27
Originally posted by pinguin

You miss the point if you think you will stop discrimination with teaching alone. People discriminate the people that looks different because that is part of our animal hardwire programming. Animals in the jungle are very selective with the couples they choose to mate. A different tone of feather or proportion of the body will produce an immediate rejection.

Unfortunatelly, when you push people of different aspect upon populations that aren't accustum to them, it is almost inevitable that rejection follows. If you push to much, hate
 can exploit. It is not easy to deal with the crazy past of human beings.
 
 
 
One thing to bear in mind is that although human beings may look different across different continents, but in reality, the genetic diversity among humans is one of the smallest in the world. Among non-Africans, the diversity is even smaller because we descend from less than 200 individuals some 60,000 years ago.
Among animals, the rejection or "protection of their own" happens more across different species, or different subspecies. By biological definition, ALL human beings alive today belong to the same species (homo-sapiens), and also the same sub-species (homo-sapiens-sapiens).
Many milenia ago, there was another subspecies of homo-sapiens (homo sapies arcaico), which apparently became extinct some 70,000 years ago.
 
What we call "race" in the biological sense is determined by phenotype, and also by the combination of halogroups; these differences, however, are minute compared to the difference found among different species, even chimpazees.
Genetists have discovered that very often within the same "clan" of chimpanzees, there is more genetic diversity than all the humans in the world put together!
In the social sense, "race" is "ethnic group" or "nationality", and the definition varies from country to country, era to era.
 
I disagree that humans reject those who look different by instinct. All you have to do is look at history (and pre-history). Among human society, the greatest division of mankind has always been language; nowadays, perhaps religion and economic and cultural status a well.
Many ethnic groups who "look different" have blended with each other far more harmoniously than ethnic groups who look similar. I don't think the colour of skin or the shape of the skull has much to do with it.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:57
Yes, your approach is very rational. However, the real racism is not very rational but rather instinctive. When you see the low passions that existed in the past centuries, we can't explain them just asking people to be rational. There is something more primitive going on in the mind of people, I am afraid. And I believe in part is the instinct of self-preservation.
 
The explanation for me is simple. Human beings were tribal people until not more than 5.000 years ago, and in many cases even until recent times. Tribes are small group of people higher interrelated among them and highly uniform. For them, any physical difference, no matter how small it was, noticed in others human beings meant danger.
 
In modern days, humans are expossed to more varied people. However, even these days, when somebody visible different appears in a group that aren't accustummed to those phenotypes, reactions happened. The people different from the perceive "normal" average, it is in risk of being discriminated. That's seen all over the world, even in Africa you can see how pigmeys, for instance, are discriminated by bantues, and how hutus and tutsis killed each other because differences to us are trivial.
 
Adults are usually educated to be more tolerant, so attitude of people tend to be softened by culture. However, you can observe very wild reactions among children of short age, when they perceive a strange fellow has come. The teachers will make them "behave" later, but those reactions exist.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 23-Nov-2008 at 14:58
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 14:57
interesting... i'm ok with it..
as long as the couple knw how to handle their relationship.. instead of letting a collision of two different cultures to be happened, they must knw how to assimilate with each other..
for wht i see.. the couple need a little bit extra of anything compare to the usual couple. For example, need to be more understanding, supportive and etc. In my opinion, it's fascinating to be with someone who his or her upbringing is different from urself. There is always a new thing to experience everyday.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 16:04
A side topic to this is the matter of interracial (for want of a better word) adoption of children. I was for a while involved with a charity here (I did a lot of translation for them) that organises adoption primarily of Brazilian, Peruvian, Korean and Indian children for European couples here, especially Luxembourgers because the fertility rate among native Luxembourgers has dropped to near-disaster levels.
 
On whe whole it seems to work out pretty well, but that may be largely because of the polyglot and multinational culture here. Since a substantial number of these children are now in their late teens and twenties we are also beginning to see a considerable amount of 'interracial' (but common culture) 'dating'.
 
I don't think their next-generation children will develop uniformly physically however: the variety is likely to remain much the same - or even increase.
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 20:50
Originally posted by Northman

I think we all should hook up with partners as different from ourselves as possible in respect to colour, culture, ethnicity, etc.
One day our decendants would all look alike and the ugly face of racsism and "me better than you" attitude would be history.
 
 
   


that's a nice idea but the downside of everyone looking alike is there's a lack of diversity then and i really like diversity.



oh well Janus already beat me to it. Smile


Edited by Temujin - 23-Nov-2008 at 20:53
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 21:46
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Northman

I think we all should hook up with partners as different from ourselves as possible in respect to colour, culture, ethnicity, etc.
One day our decendants would all look alike and the ugly face of racsism and "me better than you" attitude would be history.   

that's a nice idea but the downside of everyone looking alike is there's a lack of diversity then and i really like diversity.
oh well Janus already beat me to it. Smile
 
Yes, I like diversity as well and I agree with you as well as with Janus statement "tolerance of diversity".
My statement was just another way to express my aversion for that particular "breed" of people who can only elevate themselves by belittleling others - no matter which common denominator we use, colour, culture, ethnicity etc. - and no matter which level we observe.
 
In my utopia, I'm looking forward to the day when we will stop talking about different human races, stop looking for what separate us and start looking for similarities instead. 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Nov-2008 at 22:29
Originally posted by Northman

...
In my utopia, I'm looking forward to the day when we will stop talking about different human races, stop looking for what separate us and start looking for similarities instead. 
 
That's an utopia, I am afraid. If you go to countries were large scale mixinga had happened already, you will notice that they still discriminate. Sometimes, even among inside families.
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 08:44
Originally posted by Northman

In my utopia, I'm looking forward to the day when we will stop talking about different human races, stop looking for what separate us and start looking for similarities instead.
 

Sounds sterile and boring. Why would we want to stop racism anyway? As long as it merely exists on an informal level it's a spice of life, along with snobbery and ideological conceit. All part of the games we play.
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2008 at 12:49
Originally posted by Reginmund

Originally posted by Northman

In my utopia, I'm looking forward to the day when we will stop talking about different human races, stop looking for what separate us and start looking for similarities instead.
 

Sounds sterile and boring. Why would we want to stop racism anyway? As long as it merely exists on an informal level it's a spice of life, along with snobbery and ideological conceit. All part of the games we play.
 
It might sound sterile and boring to us, and we can make rich statements like that in our safe environment being who we are,  but I'm sure the people on the receiving end of racism don't find it to be informal, nor do they think of it as a part of a game.
 
 
 
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