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What is the most powerful empire ever to grace us?

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Poll Question: Wich empire could kill the rest?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
8 [15.09%]
20 [37.74%]
1 [1.89%]
3 [5.66%]
2 [3.77%]
3 [5.66%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [7.55%]
6 [11.32%]
4 [7.55%]
2 [3.77%]
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is the most powerful empire ever to grace us?
    Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 11:10
Originally posted by IamJoseph

Yes and Creationism apparently is logical, too. Anyway obviously this is a non-theological thread as the OP wanted a temporal discussion of Empires.
 
While there is no dispute theology and history are seperate realms and should not be inter-related here,
Then don't bloody well relate them. Go find yourself a theology forum so people who want to talk sense can without being drowned out.


Edited by gcle2003 - 17-Oct-2008 at 11:11
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 11:27
ou are aware, of course, that the US political institution is inspired by the Roman republic.
 
No, I'm not. But I am aware the Constitution is based on one document only:
 
 
 
 

It has been stated by some that the Geneva Bible was the Bible present at the signing of the U. S. Declaration of Independence and the U. S. Constitution, because it was the Bible that the Puritans brought with them to America. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Bible]

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The ”foundations of the States which constitute this confederacy [the United States],” said the report, ”were laid by Christian and civilized nations, who were instructed or misled as to the nature of their duties by the precepts and examples contained in the volume they acknowledged as the basis of their religious rites and creeds [the Bible]. Invoking Genesis 1:28 as a frame of reference, the authors of the report stated: ”To go forth, to subdue and replenish the earth, were received [by ''Christian and civilized nations''] as divine commands or relied on as plausible pretexts to cover mercenary enterprises by the Governments which gave the authority and [sent forth] the adventurers who first discovered and took possession of the New World.”http://www.kumeyaay.com/2008/02/law-in-the-shadow-of-the-bible/

President George Washington, First President of the United States

“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

Andrew Jackson, the seventh president of the United States, said, "That Book is the rock on which this republic rests."

President George Washington, First President of the United States

“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”



Edited by IamJoseph - 17-Oct-2008 at 11:34
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 11:33
Is the Constitution and the judiciary you live under - a theology or a reality? FYI, the OT laws are more reality based than ToE: flaunt an OT law and one can get slimed into prison; not so with ToE. Reality does not become negated because you use a word called 'theology' as your proof. Rome is not reality - it is dead.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 11:33
No, I'm not. But I am aware the Constitution is based on one document only:


LOL  What world are you living in?



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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 11:36
Well if you're going to close your ears to everything that doesn't fit with how you want the world to be then we might as well drop this, since debate will be fruitless anyhow. Sigh.
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  Quote Goblin Monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2008 at 14:36
Lets relocate this debate back from the connection between constitutions and Rome to somthing like why the Persian Empire has more votes then Alexanders Empire, when Alexanders empire conqured Persia?
Is it just me or did your mom just wink at me?
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2008 at 16:22
No, I'm not. But I am aware the Constitution is based on one document only:

LOL
  What world are you living in?
 
3rd rock from the sun. That's why I can produce 100s of archives to evidence what is otherwise commonly known this side of the milky way. The US Constitution, one of the greatest mad made treatise, marks the break from Europe, and is foundational to the OT as its source - exclusively. This is a 'history' forum, right? Stern%20Smile 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2008 at 22:38
Originally posted by Goblin Monkey

Lets relocate this debate back from the connection between constitutions and Rome to somthing like why the Persian Empire has more votes then Alexanders Empire, when Alexanders empire conqured Persia?


Because it lasted for a less than two decades and splintered. The Persian Empire (Achamenid ) that is grew,matured, and died in the span of centuries.
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 02:29
The Persian history is greatly described in the book of Esther - an authentic, contemporary document which describes in minute details, Persia under Darius and other kings, and its conquering of Babylon, prior to Greece's invasion. Persia's political admin and historical names of its prominant officers, as well as numerous other historical details, are not available from any outside sources.
 
One of Persia's significant impacts on modern history is it over-turned Babylon's decree and allowed the Hebrews to return to their land, enabling the city of Jerusalem to remain till today. The other historical impact is the Hebrews introduced alphabetical writings in far away places like India, which Persia invaded, and employed Hebrews in its armies. Persia did not possess alphabetical books.
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  Quote Voskhod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 03:09
Jerusalem remained there to this day because the Romans rebuilt it as Aelia Capitolina, after they razed the old Jewish city in AD70. Jews were then only allowed by into the city after the Muslim Conquests.

The Achaemenid Persians did have an alphabet by the way, but they were based on the cuneiform system, rather than the Phoenician alphabet.


Edited by Voskhod - 19-Oct-2008 at 03:10
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 03:29
Jerusalem remained there to this day because the Romans rebuilt it as Aelia Capitolina, after they razed the old Jewish city in AD70. Jews were then only allowed by into the city after the Muslim Conquests.
 
Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BCE. The Persians allowed Jerusalem and its temple rebuilt 70 years later, and it remained a sovereign nation till 70 CE. That both Greece and Rome made Judea vasal provinces does not change anything - this was done throughout the Roman empire, which effected all states in Europe and Arabia. Buth Israel survived this, along with its historical heritage, language and people. Many did not.
 


The Achaemenid Persians did have an alphabet by the way, but they were based on the cuneiform system, rather than the Phoenician alphabet.
 
When you evidence some alphabetical persian books - you will correct me, and I will concede my history was wrong.
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  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 04:07
Since this is tangental to the thread, IamJoseph, I will be short in my reply. You are entirely wrong about Persian alphabet and Voskhod is correct. You don't need books to have an alphabet. A simple google search of Old Persian Cuneiform would prove your "history" wrong. Here is one page for you to peruse: Old Persian Cuneiform at Omniglot For an actual example of Old Persian writing please google the Behistun Inscription.
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 04:34
You don't need books to have an alphabet.
 
Note that I specified alphabetical 'books' - a multi-page continueing narrative. These do impact on the spread of writings more than any other factor, as they are mobile forms of communication and retention. I never said anything contradicting older writings - the stone picture etchings on pyramids, for example, are of course older.
 
Aside from books, I would also imagine that a continueing, periodical display of writings, displaying contemporary, identifiable historical descriptions, is also a vital factor here. Advanced alphabetical books have to be factored in what constitutes greatness, as opposed 'empire'. Arguably, Alexander's greatest contribution was not his wars, but his decision to translate the Hebrew bible into another language for the first time: this, though I don't want to devert, caused Greek alphabetical writings, Democrasy, and later on Christianity itself. Not small factors of 'great'.
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 04:40
You are entirely wrong about Persian alphabet and Voskhod is correct.
 
I am surprised you never took up instead the case of the Romans being nominated as the source of the Jerusalem Temple, and its disregarding of the period of independent from Rome sovereignty of this city since 586 BCE - before Rome entered this region.  That was not correct either. There is loads of dishistory which has become history - I wonder how and why this happened.


Edited by IamJoseph - 19-Oct-2008 at 04:42
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 07:07

Old Persian Cuneiform

Origin

Darius I (550-486 BC) claims credit for the invention of Old Persian Cuneiform in an inscription on a cliff at Behistun in south-west Iran. The inscription dates from 520 BC and is in three languages - Elamite, Babylonian and Old Persian. Some scholars are sceptical about Darius' claims, others take them seriously, although they think that Darius probably commissioned his scribes to create the alphabet, rather than inventing it himself.

 
This is well after 586 BCE, by which time 100s of alphabetical Hebrew books were already existent. I fail to see any logic in nominating a writing which exended the cunieform to an alledged alphabetical script as applicable here, and which most probably would have come from interaction with the hebrews, already in this land at this time, with a vast archive of alphabetical books. Darius was known to be very closely associated with the Hebrews, even concerning the love of his life, and his chief adviser.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 11:06
Originally posted by IamJoseph

You don't need books to have an alphabet.
 
Note that I specified alphabetical 'books' - a multi-page continueing narrative.
We don't have any books remaining from as far back as you're talking about now. Apartt from anything else the word 'book' doesn't really apply to the original Torah, since books hadn't been invented then, and even now it is also kept in its original form as a set of scrolls.
 .. Arguably, Alexander's greatest contribution was not his wars, but his decision to translate the Hebrew bible into another language for the first time:
That decision was taken decades after Alexander died. But I don't suppose it's worth pointing that out to you again, since you're capable of beieving he visited Jerusalem more than twenty years after he died.
 
You really are ridiculously ignorant of history.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 11:07
Originally posted by IamJoseph

You are entirely wrong about Persian alphabet and Voskhod is correct.
 
I am surprised you never took up instead the case of the Romans being nominated as the source of the Jerusalem Temple, and its disregarding of the period of independent from Rome sovereignty of this city since 586 BCE - before Rome entered this region.  That was not correct either. There is loads of dishistory which has become history - I wonder how and why this happened.
 
Why wonder? You seem to be doing your best to contribute to the process, so you should know.
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  Quote IamJoseph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 12:13
Parchment, such as the Torah,  and later printed book, have the same application here: these are different from tombstone epitaphs and trade reciepts.
 
Alexander's visit to Jerusalem and his meeting with the temple priests was the negotiated point for the Septuagint's translation. It was initiated some 18 years later, whereby Ptolemy honored Alexander's wish, and assembled 70 translators for this enormous task. That this event was Alexander's most lasting impact on history is not in doubt. It is not dismissable when a history of powerful deeds is being debated. I am educating you.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 19:57
You are not educating anyone, you are elevating your heritage above any one elses. First the Persian deeds for the Jews, then the Jews invented the world, etc... Get over your own superiority complexes before engaging in constructive debate. 
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2008 at 20:51
Originally posted by IamJoseph

Parchment, such as the Torah,  and later printed book, have the same application here: these are different from tombstone epitaphs and trade reciepts.
Why? And why do you call scrolls books?
 
Alexander's visit to Jerusalem and his meeting with the temple priests was the negotiated point for the Septuagint's translation.
But if it happened in 300BC as you claimed, then it was negotiated with his ghost.
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