Croatia's borders

Originally posted by evilbu Sorry for rushing into the discussion, but I am interested in the borders of Croatia itself.  How were they defined, or more precisely, when were they defined?  I know that the borders of the modern independent country were based on those of the internal borders of the republics within communist Yugoslavia that were drawn after WWII, but what were they based on? The border with Bosnia seems to be based on the old border of the Ottoman Empire, the northern part of which simply corresponds with the Sava river. According to this picture : that border is more than 300 years old. What about the rest? I take it (correct me if I'm wrong) the border between Croatia and modern Hungary is almost exactly the same as the one between the "Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia" and the "Kingdom of Hungary"?

There was no precise criteria, all sorts of criterias were used in 1945 when the borders were being drawn. The very basic one for Croatia was the 1939-1941 autonomous Croatian Banate within the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, which was considered as its last legal predecessor. The only changes made was that it was decided that Yugoslavian Baranya is detached from Serbian Vojvodina and attached to Croatia, and that the historical territories of Bosnia and Herzegovina are intact, therefore removing all Croatian parts within it. Next to that, Syrmia was divided between Croatia and Serbia on ethnic basis, containing majorities on each side and a significant minority of the other's. And also, the newly aqcuired territories from Italy in WWII were all decided to be granted to Croatia (Istria, local areas near to Trieste, Rijeka, Zadar, many Adriatic islands), save for a tiny strip granted to Slovenia, which demanded to have an access to sea of any sorts.

These were the borders of the Croatian Banate:

And what about the border between Hungary and Croatia? What is it based on? When did it appear on maps in some form for the first time?

I'm afraid you don't really understand my question.  That line between Croatia and Hungary has to be older than 1945, because it already appeared on maps after World War I when Yugoslavia and Hungary settled/established borders.

Originally posted by Yugoslav Originally posted by evilbu I'm afraid you don't really understand my question.  That line between Croatia and Hungary has to be older than 1945, because it already appeared on maps after World War I when Yugoslavia and Hungary settled/established borders. Er, that's what I am telling you. No, it isn't. That's Yugoslavian-Hungarian border, not Croatian-Hungarian.

Now I'm confused.  Do you happen to know where I can find maps depicting the borders superimposed over each other?

Well everything is interesting, the borders of Croatia in post-1945 Yugoslavia, together with the interbellum border between Yugoslavia and Croatia, and the pre-dissolution of the Empire border between the "Kingdom of Hungary" and "Croatia-Slavonia".

I think I see now what you mean, there were some counties like Baranya and Zala that were not left completely within the new Hungary as well, when Yugoslavia was created after the first world war.

But I AM correct that the border between Hungary and Yugoslavia did not change after WWII, am I not?

Carpatian wolf it is a mistake to call Bosnians re turkisized. Yet they re mostly muslim people. But that doesnt make them turk. they re bosnians. I have many Bosnian friend they have their own cultures and languages.

If you mean their choice of religion the term turkisized is wrong term

There are few different locations for let's say polish episode of Croats. One is indeed around Kraków. The second is Upper Silesia, third somerewhere in Bohemia. Moreover Croats are mentioned as founders of Kiev (ogether with Polans and other tribes) there's also location betwwen Kiev and Carpathia mountains.

Precise location is very doubtfull as it always and only bases on relation to other tribes whose lacation is sometimes more doubtfull

Serbs - I personally do not belive they settled anywhere in Poland. There are numerous cities which name resemble word   "Serb" but it could  be rather locations of war prisoners takken by Boleslav the Brave

Originally posted by Kiszuriwalilibori Serbs - I personally do not belive they settled anywhere in Poland. There are numerous cities which name resemble word   "Serb" but it could  be rather locations of war prisoners takken by Boleslav the Brave

Serbs DID settle in the area that is western Poland and Eastern germany, the Lusatian Sorbs are remnants of that settlement.

...as for Kiev I thought the Ruriks founded Kiev(???)

A map is not credible evidence.