Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)
And McCain's VP pick is... |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1234 8> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search  Topic Options
|
||||||||||
Vorian 
Colonel 
Joined: 06-Dec-2007 Location: Greece/Hellas Online Status: Offline Posts: 566 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: And McCain's VP pick is...Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 17:11 |
||||||||||
|
McCain really shot himself in the leg with this choice.
|
|||||||||||
 |
|||||||||||
|
Guests
Guest 
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 17:16 |
||||||||||
|
She sounds like a bigger nut than him  Love how Rove praised her "mayor of 2nd largest city of Alaska, (9,000)."  But blasted Tim Cain, "he's been the mayor of the hundred largest city of America, Richmond just isn't a big city..." Who has been a Lt. Gov and Governor, ... Love these dualities. O'Rielly blasted Spear's sister for a teen pregnancy called the parents idiots, but in Palins... case it is a personal matter, a personal decision, bla bla bla. http://www.thedailyshow.com/index.jhtml Clips of this are shown on the Daily Show, too. |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
gcle2003
King 
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 19:17 |
||||||||||
|
My own feeling is that Palin cements the support of the crazy religious right, the single-issue "pro-life" obsessives and so on.
I can't see her taking any votes at all, female or male, from the Democratic base, and to most independents she will be a joke - or at least a soap opera as we wait to hear 'will he won't he' as they pick daisy petals over whether the guy will actually marry the girl (or the gilr silly enough to hook up with an evident loser).
But she will bring in the fundamentalists that McCain had risked losing (to apathy, not to the Democrats). After all when did 'family values' mean she and her daughter had to get married before they conceived children?
Instead of 'just say no', do we get 'just say anytime baby'?
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 19:27 |
||||||||||
|
She does take the idiot vote however, albeit in small numbers, I have a co-worker that grieves from problems that the republican government is fond of doing but will vote for McCain because he is a "maverick," and she is a "little maverick herself." Which I found laughable.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Byzantine Emperor
Arch Duke 
Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios Joined: 24-May-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 19:37 |
||||||||||
|
I love how this thread resembles the smokey backroom machinations of the DNC or Obama campaign headquarters.
 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Panther
General 
Joined: 20-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 21:33 |
||||||||||
|
I agree. |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Panther
General
Joined: 20-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 22:09 |
||||||||||
Well, gender and ethncity seems too be a touchy subject nowadays? About the elections, how can a Republican disagree with Obama without coming across as a rascists or portrayed as one in the media? The same goes for the Democrats as well w/o sounding like they're chock full of sexist bigots? I can tell that within either camp, there are a few of those who are just chomping at the bit too really let loose, but can't because of todays PC atmosphere?
Also, i would like too mention the elephant in the room, Mr. Obama's parents were white and black, but most people and the media has focused in on him possibly being the first black President, which by the same standards does come across as some pretty impressive and very sophisticated pandering. We have to face the possible facts, our politicans don't seem to try to appeal anymore for voters, they pander too them!
 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
beorna
General
Joined: 03-Dec-2007 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 925 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 23:12 |
||||||||||
|
I saw the convention of the Republicans yesterday. It was the first time ever I watched this. I listened to Giuliani and to Palin. I was very astonished how contemptuous they talked about Obama. It is not that I like Obama. Instead of a great mass of my German fellow-citizens I am not impressed of him. I am no Democratic supporter as well. OK, if I would be allowed to elect for a party, than it would be rather the Democratic party than the Republicans. A lot of people in Germany compare the political spectrum of the US with their Republicans and Democrats with those of the German with the conservative CDU and the Social Democrats SPD. For me it seems, that the Democrates are more like the Liberals from FDP and the CDU, whereas the Republicans can be compared with right-winged conservatives or nationalists. But back to the convention. Especially Giuliani seemed to love to play the clown. Perhaps this style of adress appeals to Americans, I don't know, I did not like it. But more than about Giuliani I was impressed about Palin. It was so easy to look through her speach. And when she introduced her family - oh, no word about her pregnant daughter. Just a nice picture-book family. How stupid! During her speach she sometimes spoke about what she and McCain would do, e.g. bring the war on Iraq to an victorious end. So it is not accomplished? I was very happy to see that your politicians lie as much as ours do. But it was so obviously. By the way, what is clean coal? Do you have different coal in the States? Perhaps it's like our clear nuclear power. Just a little bit of nuclear waste! I do not like the current president Bush, sorry, I do believe he's an idiot. But that's not his fault. He's just the man he is. Well I think you can have a big time with him at a party or a barbecue, but all the rest? But Palin? She seems to me as an ambitious, greedy and cold woman that would do everything for her success. And we heart she shall be vindictive too. I don't know much about McCain, but I think she will be a deserving successor of Cheaney.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Panther
General
Joined: 20-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 00:03 |
||||||||||
Hello Hugoestr,
There is no accurate way to really tell how effective the reconciliation has been, we'll just have too wait and see in Novermber?
I thought Mr. Obama was elected to the senate in 2004?
I guess his three decades of service doesn't account for anything, then why should Mr. Obama's decade or less service count either? Or is that the point of whittling down Mr. McCain's candidacy? As for our foreign affairs and current unpopularity, we weren't hated by the terrorists or despised by many in the world during the Bush administration, but also during Clinton's, Bush Sr., Regan & Carter's. If Mr. Bush's administration has only created more terrorists, then what was creating them in the thirty plus years prior? Yes, i know it's been said to be about Israel, injustices and the occupation. But' let's face it, the other half of the equation really boils down to is hate & prejudice on the terrorists part & massive misinformation passed on by their media to the muslim population in general! Both Israel and Muslims have been dealt a great disservice for over sixty years. The only way for some type of relative peace too come in the middle east without outside interference, is either by Israel ceasing too exist or Muslims getting so fed up with the constant drumming for war too forget their other more pressing problems from their national, intellectual or religous leaders, that they either throwout the entire crop of idiots and replace them all... en masse with fresh new ideas from homegrown original Muslim thinkers? Atleast that is how it has appeared to me for the past couple of years, that is, to be as politely blunt as i dare!
I don't know? I should just give up trying too second guess the rationality of any politican? But, then half of the fun is gone out of my life when they don't do as i expected or demand, then i can't turn around and call them all a bunch of idiotic @$$h*les when i think i'm right and their wrong!
I understand your point. But, what i would like for you to see from my pov, is how absurd both parties can be when the whitehouse is up for grabs? I have seen and am starting too believe everything & anything is possible at those times.
Now your scaring me.
 Well, i can see how the choice of Gov. Palin as VP is probably causing them panic attacks at night! But, let's be honest, since Roe vs Wade.... of the administrations since then we have had five out the eight administrations being Republican Presidencies, which have consistently failed too reverse that decesion, and they were adamantly opposed too abortion as much and perhaps even more so then McCain has ever been! I think if they couldn't have gotten the decision reversed within the first few decades, then their chances are that they never will succeed? That is, if they have even bothered too really try in the first place!
Independent or moderates? It hard too tell which way this election wil go? If anything, this is one interesting election year!
Personally, the country is of much more interest to me than my personal politics! Of this hypothetical scenario... even though my stress level would have been significantly reduced going with a conservative running mate of like mind... i more than likely would have gone with Mr. Lieberman myself? A bigtime ex-Democrat liberal from the northeast with leftwing socialist ideals, virtually abandoned by his party, judging from appearances, for daring too have an independent view on foreign affairs! That appears being more in line with the maverick persona then Mr. McCain has claimed himself to be! The man still won his seat in the senate from his district constituents, despite his former party throwing everything it had at him but the kitchen sink, just to get him unseated! So you are probably right in Mr. McCain not being a maverick. Atleast he didn't have his party trying too destroy his several decade political career, just for bucking their politically expedient new found belief!
Anyways... hopefully some of my bluntness didn't put you or anyone else off? So far, I've really enjoyed all my interactions with those of differing opinions here! Hopefully others might feel the same of my minor contributions?
Until the next time i have the pleasure of discussing any other topics further with you, take care of yourself...
Panther
Edited to straighten out the quote marks - gcle2003 Edited by gcle2003 - 05-Sep-2008 at 11:20 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Penelope
Chieftain 
Alia Atreides Joined: 26-Aug-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1042 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 01:30 |
||||||||||
Yes indeed. Pandering is definately the name of the game, for both sides.
|
|||||||||||
|
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
hugoestr
Tsar 
Suspended Joined: 13-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3987 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 02:11 |
||||||||||
|
Hi, Panther,
It sounds like you are hoping against hope that Hillary supporters were going to abandon ship. Well, they may have done that until McCain picked Palin. As I thought, many Hillary supporters are angry at the idea that Palin, a regressive social conservative with a new skeleton coming out of the closet each day, is supposed to stand for Hillary  .
As for experience, Obama served as a state legislator from 1997 to 2004, when he became US senator. That makes a total of 11 years of experience in elected office, a lot more than Palin, unless we are counting her tenure as PTA leader as part of her experience
As for McCain, he has shown himself as a total idiot on foreign affairs. As you yourself say, the Middle East is important. Yet McCain can't tell the difference between the Shia and the Sunni? He talks about the border of Iraq and Pakistan??!! This shows total incompetence on this most important issue. Once again, being a war hawk doesn't turn you into a foreign affairs realist. As the last 8 years of our country has shown, war hawks can be totally out of touch of reality. And that is what he are getting with McCain: a out of touch war hawk policy. 
As for Lieberman, he is only interested in himself. He lost a primary, he threw a tantrum and Republicans helped him get elected for his senate seat again. He is not an ex liberal; he is still a big liberal in everything except in foreign affairs. He is yet another chicken hawk. And from what I have read, Lieberman was in the VP list. But Lieberman seems to have declined the candidacy, as all of the other male Republicans with a future in the GOP. The only one who seems to have said yes was the former beauty queen kook from Alaska.
Okay, joking aside, I say this again: McCain choosing a solidly conservative male would have been a better choice. It would have brought together most of the people who traditionally side with conservatives. At this point McCain is losing the strongly conservative Biblical types, since a woman leader of the armed forces is unbiblical (so they say), it is probably going to lose whatever sector of misogynist men exist in the party, and it already lost the Hillary supporters who were leaning for McCain. The more mainstream conservatives are probably happier with the selection, but then, they were going to vote for McCain in any case. Here is my opinion about the election: the internal polls of McCain have him losing, so him picking Palin was supposed to change the dynamics. Maybe they are overly pessimistic, since I still see McCain winning as being very plausible, but their actions speak louder than words. And there is no danger that you can upset me. I actually enjoy going back and forth with someone who won't get upset about it either. That is part of the fun in politics
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Akolouthos
Sultan 
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2091 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 02:26 |
||||||||||
Can't it be both?
 Seriously though, since I view the type of political debate that takes place on this forum as a secondary concern, I can hardly act as if I'm shocked. If this site is to be turned into a spin-zone, so be it; just not on Phil/Theo.
-Akolouthos
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 11:16 |
||||||||||
Personally I miss the smoke. I wonder if all those traditional smoke-filled rooms are now non-smoking areas?
 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 11:26 |
||||||||||
The point isn't that the US is unpopular with terrorists or anti-Israel Arabs in general. The point is that under Clinton the US was still very popular world-wide (as indeed was Clinton himself personally) whereas under Bush the US has become unpopular with all the people that used to be allies or at least neutral, while Bush himself is either despised or mocked. In the last few years I've never heard anyone have a good word for Bush, even among expat Republicans of whom there are many here.
I'm pretty sure the US has never in its whole history been as looked down on so widely as it is now. Edited by gcle2003 - 05-Sep-2008 at 11:29 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Panther
General
Joined: 20-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 20:56 |
||||||||||
Hello again Hugoestr,
I'm just trying to pass on what i've read & how i think i understand it. Whether it happens or not, my day won't be ruined based on whatever choice they choose too make. Besides, whatever the private or public faults of Gov. Palin, i thought the democrat party or it's supporters was made up , this election year, of tolerance and acceptance of those who are different or had their fair share with problems?
Good for him, and i am not going too say that i wish for him to fail out of any vindictiveness or spite, but i still suspect that his meteoric rise from national anomity is also bound for a fiery crash if he ever loses control of his carefully crafted and controlled image he has built around himself or the media abandons him for the next new thing? There is always still a chance that either campaign can still implode over the next few months! Of course, i know i can be wrong, seeing that at the beginning of last year i didn't suspect him too even get this far, or for McCain too remain interested after all these years of trying. So again i say, he has impressed me too the extent that i have gotten the impression that he is probably one of those old time politicans who recognizes a superbly golden opportunity that is presented too him and has run with it for all that it is worth, and McCain is simply reacting to what has caused him a disadvantage so far! Also, not that i am offended, but your statement regarding Gov. Palin is exactly the shortfall the Democrats need too publicly avoid at all cost, too keep women from abandoning the Democrat party en masse during this election cycle? I'm starting too really think this choice of Mrs. Palin as VP was extremely shrewed?
Personally, i'm not interested in the mistakes candidates make on the campaign trail. There are more than several factors at work that can cause such a thing. Ranging from, as you say, personal ignorance all the way to the fatigue of running a campaign and trying too keep the news interested enough to report it! Now, i know you don't want too turn this into which candidate is the most incompetent or the most exhausted? I believe it is safe too say that whoever wins the elections this year, will only have too govern 50 states and not 57!
That is very true. However, from my US-centric pov... painting oneself as a peacenik or isolationist hasn't ever stopped a war from happening either, specifically speaking... our inability not to get drawn into it! Anyways... both can be just as equally out of touch with reality as the other!
Aren't most politicans only interested in themseleves too a certain degree? Besides, i didn't say, or mean too imply... he was an ex-liberal, i thought i had said that he is just an ex-democrat!
If that is so, then i think that is a smart choice?
That might be true, seeing that there are some Republicans who are openly supporting Mr. Obama's candidacy. But, i'm not real sure whether it is because the issue is one of a female VP over a male candidate, or some other reason like difference over the runnng of foreign affairs for instance?
There is always that chance in politics! I suspect the possibility of "change" that Mr. Obama has talk about, will probably effect the two respective parties much more than the actual society that he had in mind? In your last sentence, might you be conceding that there are more hillary supporters giving their support to Mr. McCain then to Mr. Obama, then you have otherwise let on so far?
Yes, you are right, they would have anyway, just like the mainstream Democrats were going to vote for their party all along!
Well, if McCain is going to govern according to polls, then perhaps he deserves to lose the election anyways? However, whatever the effects of his choice will cause, i do think it has made the election a bit more interesting, from a historically cultural pov that is!
That is a relief! I do have a tendency too make myself a nusiance
, that is also not too say... a bit long winded on whatever subject i happen to throw myself into!  |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Panther
General
Joined: 20-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 818 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05-Sep-2008 at 21:59 |
||||||||||
That's not entirely true, IIRC... his decision too involve the US in the balkans wasn't well recieved by plenty of people in Western Europe, especially in the Balkan countries! For that matter... by the end of his terms, the original coalition against Saddam had virtually collapsed due in part i think, the world's growing displeasure with the impression of the US bullying the nation of Iraq, and he did absolutely nothing too rectify the situation for anyone involved! Now, i am not stating that i had wished for a war then, between the US and Iraq. I preferred some peaceful resolution to that diplomatic quagmire. Unfortunately, the day the twin towers came down, is the day i realized the death of an era; After awhile of mourning, it was time to move on!
Still, he is an incredibly skillfull politican and has that rare charm nowadays, for a politican who can charm anything as long as it is made up of any biological material! Personally, i did see that charming appeal about him, but at the same time, it had scared me to a point of never trusting him! I don't trust any politican with that type of charm. In Mr. Obama case, i give him the benefit of the doubt, atleast so far! Not so with Bush, The man doesn't and never has terrified me in the least, thanks in part to the impressive amount of opposition against him from day one! Now, i know i would be viewing him differrently if he had no opposition what so ever too speak of! Sure he has that little bit of personal one on one charm that can last for a while & can get some things done, but as far as the public is concerned, the first media impression of him will be the only public impression of him, for a while atleast!
Also about the Bush administration, as i distinctfully recall, was not warmly receieved from day one, nationally or internationally. I guess you could say it started with the recount decision and then snowballed from there making him into something he has never been. Then again, IIRC... Mr. Regan's administration wasn't as popular either! Besides his taking a tougher stance with the USSR had made plenty of people nervous around the world, and his intervention in Central America against communism and also taking on the illegal drug trade & their routes from roughly that area. I suppose or suspect the legacy of Nixon has left a very nasty impression in the world regarding all Republicans in general, much more then it had been realized at the time... as the most likely of the two parties who will abandon all their principles in which it is based & go insane; That is forgetting that in doing so would cause it's immediate collapse due too an extreme lack of support! Of course, that is... only what i presumed people had always suspected of them and that is what they have looked for?
Besides, i think there has been multiple times when the US was looked at rather unfondly, the most recent of course was the Vietnam war!
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Sep-2008 at 11:20 |
||||||||||
Depends which Balkan country you are talking about. Not in Serbia, certainly. But most of Western Europe was firmly on the side of the other ex-Yugoslav groups. As for general popularity, Clinton was received with ovations wherever he went, whereas Bush effectively has to stay out of the light.
In fact if Clinton was criticised in Europe over the Balkans it was because of his hesitancy in acting.
The coalition dissolved once Kuwait had been freed. You can't really blame either Bush Sr or Clinton for that: it had served its purpose. Most people then lost interest in Iraq, since it was no longer a real threat to anyone. Many people were upset over the US failure to support the Shiite rising that they had encouraged, but that was under Bush Sr, not Clinton.
All that Iraq meant after that was an occasional emergence of 'no-fly' enforcement into the news, but it was hardly an emotional issue.
What have the twin towers got to do with the subject. Yes the attack profuced a large upswell of emotion favourable to the US, but the Bush adminstration frittered that away within two years.
Abandonment of international agreements and conventions, disregard for the US constutition and the rights of citizens, tightening surveillance of private activity, stirring up fake fears and xenophobia, eight spendthrift years encouraging profligacy, domestic and national, increasing militarisation of the society... doesn't terrify you?
True. However 911 changed all that, until, as I said, the administration threw it all away.
Reagan was never as unpopular outside the US as Bush. He had quite a few supporters around the world: the eighties marked an upswing in right-wing sentiment in much of the world - notably of course in Britain with Margaret Thatcher, whom Reagan emulated in many ways. Of course the left-wing didn't like him, but the right did and the middle found him acceptable in foreign policy. In contrast, today right, left and middle ALL find Bush and his associates intolerable (except in a few near-puppet states, but the US doesn't have the wealth to support many of those any more).
Reagan's deleterious effect was domestic, on the whole his foreign policy worked OK with the people outside the US.
Why would that happen? You can always wave the banner of the war on terror to justify anything. And if that doesn't work, bring up Roe vs Wade and family values. And of course, lie.
Most people, me included at the time, didn't care about the Vietnam war. Apart from anything else, US motives for the war weren't suspect, even if the conduct of it wasn't brilliant.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Byzantine Emperor
Arch Duke
Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios Joined: 24-May-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1800 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Sep-2008 at 18:14 |
||||||||||
Yes, the United States has turned into the equivalent of a fascist police state. There are concentration camps and gulags set up where people are dying by the thousands, right under the unconcerned populace's nose. All freedoms have been taken away; there are cameras at every street corner, in every kitchen faucet, under every bed. "Foreigners" are being rounded up and mysteriously relocated. There are parades of armed soldiers goose stepping down every Main Street. Citizens are forced on a daily basis to provide food and shelter for soldiers. Oh the humanity, Hitler and Stalin are back in the US!
You can always bring up the fact that the "conservative" side waves the banner of war on terrorism or that they pander to country bumpkins who have guns and too many babies in order to advocate the consolidation of a one world government and citizenship where everyone is "helped" and there are no unfortunate differences. Edited by Byzantine Emperor - 07-Sep-2008 at 18:17 |
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Sep-2008 at 18:43 |
||||||||||
|
B.E.:
You forgot that due to the "increasing militarisation of the society" we have all become Prussian. Buy yourself a monocle.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
gcle2003
King
Suspended Joined: 06-Dec-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7035 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 07-Sep-2008 at 19:14 |
||||||||||
This kind of wild exaggeration of what I said is a great way of covering up the feeling that I was closer to the mark than you want to admit.
As a matter of fact I have myself seen soldiers parading through Atlanta airport, in a way that wouldn't happen in any other western country. And I know from others that's not unusual. Neither are the cheerleaders who were w^sent out ahead of the parade to encourage people to cheer and applaud.
Moreover it's now trivial that the administration has arrogated the right to detain citizens without trial for as long as rthey care to.
Sarcasm is only a refuge for those with no sensible answer.
You can also do it for a whole host of other reasons. The point is that the accusation is true irrespective of the motive for doing so.
Your last paragraph is simply idiotic tosh.
|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1234 8> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.129 seconds.
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz
This page was generated in 0.129 seconds.
