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And McCain's VP pick is...
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    Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 15:47
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor


 

Therefore, I like the fact that Palin seems to be standing for some core conservative principles: pro-life (yes, her daughter made the right decision, call me a hypocrite if you want),


If you disapprove of her (and her mother) getting pregnant extra-maritally but think she was then right to have the baby, that's not hypocritical.

 

But what does it say for the Palins' sense of 'family values'?


It is very clear what it says: Palin is a wretch of a mother. As soon as the child is breathing, she neglects them, as it was obvious that she neglected her daughter and now we see how she is neglecting her new born baby.

Is this how a conservative, family values mother is supposed to behave?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 15:27
Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Akolouthos

Originally posted by Seko

I take it from the conservatives of AE that you don't approve of Palin either. Your silence is glaringly obvious. Wink
 
While I do not consider myself a conservative (I'd prefer the term "other"), I am sure that others would apply this label to me. Since this is so, I will note that the reason I have not participated in this dialogue all that much is not because of any feelings for or against Palin, but rather because of the tone and absurdity of the dialogue. Whenever I see AE members becoming as illogical and overdramatic as the most servile campaign spinsters, I generally shy away. I do understand that many people need to blow off some partisan steam, and I do respect this, but for me the whole thing is a cause for a great deal of regret, and participating would only make it moreso. I know that most everyone on this forum is capable of much better, and it is quite sad to see them thinking beneath their ability. Often on this forum my silence is indicative of my objection to some underlying aspect of a particular discussion.
 
-Akolouthos
 
You may include me with the guilty ones in over dramatizing and spinning a few points across. However, unlike you I have a need to show the dark side of this woman. "Why is that?", one may ask. Oh, perhaps because she is about to possibly hold one of the most influencial positions in the world and that my little two cents is a form of education, specualtion and ventilation! That I would not feel comfortable keeping my mouth shut when I think someone of her caliber is contemplated for the vice presidency would be an understatement. In this case - ignorance is not bliss.
 
Originally posted by Panther

 
No, i wasn't originally trying to be sarcastic. Just my readings i've gathered from around the web. The coverage in the press and the multitude of theorizing of what comes next for China has been discussed on left, center & right of the political spheres.  I guess i should have chosen my words & sentence structure a bit better. Or perhaps, just struck that paragraph out completely
 
Too much blogging will make your head spin. My suggestion! Use AE as your source of inspiration and up-to-date news!Tongue
 
Also, as if I had to remind you, don't worry about everyones elses hearsay, especially the so-called professionals.
 
 


I can't believe this type of bigot is actually going to have a good chance of being President... I guess McCain is not enough...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 15:25


Originally posted by Bey


Panther,
 
i rarely care to tell people what foreign leader i support, and whom they should elect as to lead their country!
 
If the American President did not go around bombing countries, nobody would have cared who you elect.



...or hopefuls singing Bomb Bomb Iran...


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 15:22
Originally posted by Panther


but i certainly do not think he is a warmonger!


That is just plain out denial my friend. We have ample proof on the market that he knowingly had Powell speak about nonexistent weapons facilities, we know that the CIA gave again knowingly fraudulent information, and fake reports on the Saddam - AlQueada alliance, which is laughable since he was a target of theirs alongside Iran (they after all have a quarrel with secularists - Saddam - and shia - Iran -.)

It is clear he started an illegal war, not only here in the states, but also world wide by not adhering to the UN whom we use when it serves our purposes, but when not we cast aside.

I guess that is the conservative way out - look at O'Rilley and the other dimwit pundits - they attacked Britney Spear's sister for her teen pregnacy - called the parents pinheads, but lo and behold the last few weeks the same ones tell us that Palin's daughter made a choice (interestingly they never made the point in the previous news story that her sister also made the same). We can't have people run this country on such silly duality.
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Originally posted by Akolouthos

Originally posted by Seko

I take it from the conservatives of AE that you don't approve of Palin either. Your silence is glaringly obvious. Wink
 
While I do not consider myself a conservative (I'd prefer the term "other"), I am sure that others would apply this label to me. Since this is so, I will note that the reason I have not participated in this dialogue all that much is not because of any feelings for or against Palin, but rather because of the tone and absurdity of the dialogue. Whenever I see AE members becoming as illogical and overdramatic as the most servile campaign spinsters, I generally shy away. I do understand that many people need to blow off some partisan steam, and I do respect this, but for me the whole thing is a cause for a great deal of regret, and participating would only make it moreso. I know that most everyone on this forum is capable of much better, and it is quite sad to see them thinking beneath their ability. Often on this forum my silence is indicative of my objection to some underlying aspect of a particular discussion.
 
-Akolouthos
 
You may include me with the guilty ones in over dramatizing and spinning a few points across. However, unlike you I have a need to show the dark side of this woman. "Why is that?", one may ask. Oh, perhaps because she is about to possibly hold one of the most influencial positions in the world and that my little two cents is a form of education, specualtion and ventilation! That I would not feel comfortable keeping my mouth shut when I think someone of her caliber is contemplated for the vice presidency would be an understatement. In this case - ignorance is not bliss.
 
Originally posted by Panther

 
No, i wasn't originally trying to be sarcastic. Just my readings i've gathered from around the web. The coverage in the press and the multitude of theorizing of what comes next for China has been discussed on left, center & right of the political spheres.  I guess i should have chosen my words & sentence structure a bit better. Or perhaps, just struck that paragraph out completely
 
Too much blogging will make your head spin. My suggestion! Use AE as your source of inspiration and up-to-date news!Tongue
 
Also, as if I had to remind you, don't worry about everyones elses hearsay, especially the so-called professionals.
 
 
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 14:47
Originally posted by Seko

She is a biggot and not what I think the US needs. Bad judgement, ignorant, redneck, hippie chick, psuedo conservative. Yeah, she supports her daughter's marriage. Duh? But her daughter screwed around and got knocked up. Is this the leadership America is looking for?
 
Just because she believes in the exclusivity of Christianity because it is her faith she is a bigot?  Where does it say that one has to believe in the universality of all religions in order to become President/VP?
 
I am sure there are a few Congresspeople who would like to exclude Christianity from the group of "acceptable" religions that they have concocted based on comments they have made in the past.  Are they deserving of the same label?
 
The same people who are trashing Palin in a sudden epiphany of moral rectitude saying "If she stands for abstinence, how could she have allowed her daughter to have pre-marital sex and become pregnant" and "do conservatives suddenly agree with this alternative family arrangement" would have gone out of their way to condemn her if it had instead been uncovered that she had been quite strict with her daughters concerning their freedoms while living under her roof.  If this had happened, Palin would have been trashed as a domineering, Christian fundy nutcase.  Oh wait, she is already being called that.  Is this a double standard?
 
Of course, Christian conservatives are not suddenly going to bactrack and redefine their positions on sexual morality just because Palin is supposedly a conservative and her daughter conceived out of wedlock.  The important thing is how she and her family chose to deal with it.
 
Originally posted by Seko

- She isn't green. Wants drilling the Alaska's wildlife Refuge, which her boss, McCain, opposes
 
- She could care less about polar bears as she opposed a bill making them a threatened (protected) species.
 
The former shows that she is more conservative than McCain on using the resources we have in the country already in an effort to achieve "energy independence."  What does the latter have to do with any of the real issues that face the country?  Why bring it up?  Just because I ask this don't think that I don't care about polar bears or endangered species.
 
Originally posted by Seko

Back when she was mayor of a small town called Wasilla, Alaska she had shown her meddle in the 'Librarian' incident. Palin and her cohorts (conservative Pentecostals at the time) told the town librarian to remove certain books from the shelves. "Go Ask Alice" and "Pastor, I am Gay". The librarian refused and felt they were controlling her and their request was a form of censorship. The librarian reminded Palin that books were purchased in accordance to national standards and professional guidelines and would not allow their removal. Palin fired that brave librarian. The community was in an uproar and the librarian was reinstated. She only lasted another two years as she found it difficult to work under Palin's thumb.
 
Reading beyond the smearing headlines, it was later found out that the librarian could not even remember specific titles that Palin supposedly said should be removed.  The "list" that was circulated by the media smear squad was proven to be a phony as it had books that had not even been published at the time this incident supposedly occurred.  It was an amalgamated list of books that had been banned in other places over the past century which the media tried to say Palin created.  The original context of the question, to which our valiant librarian objected, was "what is the process for banning a book and what would you do if people were picketing the library."
 
Originally posted by Seko

Palin agrees with US militarism. Though she calls herself non-denominational, she still views Islam as being a false religion. How grande! Who is to judge? Pentecostals of course thrown in with the occasional Catholic.
 
On Iraq Palin believes this is a holy war, or that Pentecostals think this is a holy war.

"Many times you hear it referred to as a kind of diabolical religion, and that comes from the idea of Christianity being the true religion, but also their support for Israel, because they contend that Israel [represents] God's chosen people and you dare not touch them.

Well, technically, she is non-denominational.  She left the "super right wing whacko fundy" Pentacostal church six years ago.  I'd like to point out that quote from the NPR article is not from Palin herself but from a Pentacostal academic who was consulted for the story.
 
So Palin believes her own Christian faith is true and Islam is false.  So what?  What about the people who hold elected office who believe all religions are false and characterize it in the same negative language?
 
Originally posted by Seko

- Palin is not a fiscal conservative. She is a spend thrift. Alaska being one of the richest states in the union, Palin sought funds for the 'bridge to nowhere' and a 30 billion dollar pipeline. Her biggest boosters are big oil. Hows that for anti-lobby crusading? Entering as mayor she had a balanced budget. She left the town $20 million in debt.
 
Wait a second, I thought she shot down the "Bridge to Nowhere" project because the state could not afford such wasteful spending and she did not want to take a large handout from the federal government?  So in reality, she disagreed with her big-spending, ear-marking "Republican" colleagues and the project bid failed on her watch.
 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 14:13
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

I hope Belgium gets partitioned between France and Holland soon. 
Can Luxembourg have the bits of old Luxembourg back please? We need the Liewensraum.
 
 
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Maharbbal,
 
I don't have a EU passport, and I tend to hang around political rallies, so I get questioned by the oh-so-liberal British police all the time (on average once a year, at least for 30 minutes each time). Once it was during entry to the UK in an airport. They were more civilised compared to the people who questioned you, though. Before anyone starts bashing the Brits, I should also mention that the worst border harrassment I experienced was by a French fascist (although it was just once out of many times, last few times it was like what you wrote, 1 minute passport check) and the worst visa experience was with the Belgians. I hope Belgium gets partitioned between France and Holland soon. 
 
BE,
First of all, I think George W. Bush has progressively (no pun intended) gone to the left of the spectrum since his re-election, especially with respect to illegal immigration and fiscal policies.
 
 
Increasing government spending does not mean you are a leftist. Hitler, Mussolini, Reagan all increased government spending. Important thing is what are you spending the money on. These fascists (and Bush) spend it on weapons and war and corporate welfare. Only an American could call this state of affairs 'becoming leftist'.
 
Panther,
 
i rarely care to tell people what foreign leader i support, and whom they should elect as to lead their country!
 
If the American President did not go around bombing countries, nobody would have cared who you elect.
 
As far as i am concerned Bush may be a spend thrift, but i certainly do not think he is a warmonger!
 
Are you for real or trolling us?
 
Graham,
 
But what does it say for the Palins' sense of 'family values'?
 
I can't believe for a moment that a developed country contemplates putting this creature in charge of anything. 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 10:57
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

 
Therefore, I like the fact that Palin seems to be standing for some core conservative principles: pro-life (yes, her daughter made the right decision, call me a hypocrite if you want),
If you disapprove of her (and her mother) getting pregnant extra-maritally but think she was then right to have the baby, that's not hypocritical.
 
But what does it say for the Palins' sense of 'family values'?
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Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 06:59
Originally posted by Seko

 
Panther the notion of the US being militaristic has entered into this discussion.
 
I'm not sure i understand this statement. I thought i understood it had? Probably should have erased a paragraph, when composing my last post, but instead... had a brainfart? My apologies.
 
Of course China, militarily, hasn't shown the capability to take over the vaccum. However, you said that is what a lot of people want. Really? Being sarcastic or did I miss something?
 
 
No, i wasn't originally trying to be sarcastic. Just my readings i've gathered from around the web. The coverage in the press and the multitude of theorizing of what comes next for China has been discussed on left, center & right of the political spheres.  I guess i should have chosen my words & sentence structure a bit better. Or perhaps, just struck that paragraph out completely
 
Yes many foreigners want Obama for president. Not a war monger nor a spend thirft. Is that so amusing?
 
It's just a difference in how i see things differently from others. Speaking solely for myself and nobody else... i rarely care to tell people what foreign leader i support, and whom they should elect as to lead their country! As far as i am concerned Bush may be a spend thrift, but i certainly do not think he is a warmonger! Anyways, I don't usally find political opinions amusing, just interesting. Hopes this helps clarify, what my other post probably left out?
 
Best regards,
Panther


Edited by Panther - 12-Sep-2008 at 07:02
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 05:25
Originally posted by Seko

I take it from the conservatives of AE that you don't approve of Palin either. Your silence is glaringly obvious. Wink
 
While I do not consider myself a conservative (I'd prefer the term "other"), I am sure that others would apply this label to me. Since this is so, I will note that the reason I have not participated in this dialogue all that much is not because of any feelings for or against Palin, but rather because of the tone and absurdity of the dialogue. Whenever I see AE members becoming as illogical and overdramatic as the most servile campaign spinsters, I generally shy away. I do understand that many people need to blow off some partisan steam, and I do respect this, but for me the whole thing is a cause for a great deal of regret, and participating would only make it moreso. I know that most everyone on this forum is capable of much better, and it is quite sad to see them thinking beneath their ability. Often on this forum my silence is indicative of my objection to some underlying aspect of a particular discussion.
 
-Akolouthos
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 05:00
Originally posted by Seko


She is a biggot and not what I think the US needs. Bad judgement, ignorant, redneck, hippie chick, psuedo conservative. Yeah, she supports her daughter's marriage. Duh? But her daughter screwed around and got knocked up. Is this the leadership America is looking for?


A conservative's wet dream

Actually to add to that, I don't think either her not McCain are what we need.

The dude sang bomb bomb Iran, and now he's a serious candidate...
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Careful, if I am not mistaking, only 3% of the US population can really be considered as rich.
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Originally posted by Maharbbal

About Bush, according to the Wall Street Journal (not exactly dangerous liberals) the growth of the average real income from 2000 to 2007 was 0,3% over the period. I guess that is the best argument against the GOP.


I wonder how much it would be for the median, a much better benchmark for typical American prosperity given the large concentration of wealth in the hands of the top 10%. If that were the measure, then for the vast bulk of the American population their real income and real purchasing power would likely have decreased significantly over this period.
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About Bush, according to the Wall Street Journal (not exactly dangerous liberals) the growth of the average real income from 2000 to 2007 was 0,3% over the period. I guess that is the best argument against the GOP.
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Nice. Good to hear your views on this ticket B.E.
 
I would like to take the time to say that the greatest benefit Republicans tend to offer is tax cuts for the affluent and, of course, family values. Presidents from both Democratic and Republican ilk have cut them (taxes that is) in times of need. This trickly down effect does have it's merit. Family values are a noble endeavor. Now to the point...
 
 
You mentioned:  pro-life (yes, her daughter made the right decision, call me a hypocrite if you want)
 
 
How does keeping a baby fit the family values model? Because an abortion was not performed? Most likely! What about the overwhleming purpose of family values? That being to raise a responsible family where precautions are taught and illegitimate sex is admonished. Is there room for 'out of wedlock teen pregnancies' under a conservative belief system or did that just come into vogue with the Palin affair?
 
Any other conservative who would like to share an opinion or two on Palin? Otherwise if you leave it to us liberals we are bound to go over the edge and over dramatize her as a vp selection. 
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Originally posted by Seko

I take it from the conservatives of AE that you don't approve of Palin either. Your silence is glaringly obvious. Wink
 
Well, I guess I will attempt to answer this question.
 
*Puts on a full suit of kevlar AND sixteenth-century Maximillian plate armor*
 
First of all, I think George W. Bush has progressively (no pun intended) gone to the left of the spectrum since his re-election, especially with respect to illegal immigration and fiscal policies.  Now, I am willing to agree on a wee bit of compromise here and there.  However, he does not seem like the same president he made himself out to be in 2000.  In short, he turned his back on the conservative (right-wing whackos, fundies, whatever) base who elected him in the first place.
 
Therefore, I like the fact that Palin seems to be standing for some core conservative principles: pro-life (yes, her daughter made the right decision, call me a hypocrite if you want), preservation of second amendment, supporter of a well-equipped and ready military, fiscal responsibility.  However, I will agree that her ability to handle foreign policy and diplomacy is questionable based on what we know now - not much.  As for McCain, I do not like his waffling between conservative and liberal.  I question his intentions towards fiscal responsibility, limited government, and dealing with illegal immigration.  He seems to be good in terms of national defense.  In the end, however, he is not a traditional conservative or Republican even, but rather an old school moderate Democrat.  Politicians are politicians.
 
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Originally posted by Panther

Originally posted by gcle2003

And, as it happens, I don't really need to ask my grandparents Unhappy
 
Sorry about that, wasn't trying too evoke a sense of sadness in anyone. My apologies!
No problem. And not a question of sadness, more of a joke. It's just that for many people in this forum I could be their grandparent. Hug
 
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Is there a strong militarism in the US? I don't know but I can tell you what they are: paranoid.

A few days back I decided to visit mygirlfriend in LA, at the Philadelphia airport customs I was put aside for secondary checking along with about 60 people who were for the most part EU citizens coming to visit Disneyland. After 3 hours my case was finally heard, I was treated like shit by some kind of morron with a gun as if the babies in the room represented an danger for his personal security. I got questionned for 30 minutes then left hanging. An hour later the guy came back with "my file", basically pictures of me for the last two years every single times I came in the country. He then shouted that if I did anything wrong they'd knew were to find me. I was finally sent free as all the other times I've been caught by the borders administration, I had missed my connection flight and had to spend the night on the floor of the airport of the city of brotherly love...

Meanwhile, they had harassed a US soldier coming back from Germany before realizing they had mistaken him with a druglord, they pevented a Libyan businessman to get into the country even though he had a visa, they let a guy from Congo wait for hours because there was no trnaslator whereas I had proposed to translate for him.

In comparison when I came back in France, in the file everybody was together those who were EU citizens and the foreign citizens, no special treatment, the unarmed police took a pick at everybody's passport in about 1 minutes, no pictures, no scan of finger digits and as far as I can tell nobody had been put aside for secondary checks.

One is open for business the other is not, one is rather welcomes tourists who come to spend their money the other is not....

I can't say that being greated by a pitbull without lipstick is exactly my kind of fancy. I am not sure Mc Cain and Palin would work to solve this type of issues. I love the US but really I am starting to think they don't deserve it.
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I take it from the conservatives of AE that you don't approve of Palin either. Your silence is glaringly obvious. Wink
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