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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
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Topic: Knight vs. Samurai Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 19:50 |
I have this book, I just skimmed through it and couldn't find it. Do you mind pointing me to the page it says this? Reason I ask it because I always heard the opposite and have seen comparisons on skeletal remains of Roman Legionaries and Germanic Warriors, where the former was said 5'6" and the latter 5'8" on average. Thanks in advanced.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 22:09 |
Your word against a college professor who research's these things and reads actual roman military documents. also this thread is about knight vs. samurai not about the roman army, please, please go make your own thread. also the romans may have excepted shorter soldiers, provided they had enough brawn to make up for it, and medieval armor is made for men who just under six feet or who were six five. also those bones may not be legionnaires, they could be camp followers, or mabye people exhumed the soldiers remains and buried someone else there, and the soldiers actual remains got thrown into the tiber not to mention the fact that romans cremated the corpses
Edited by Count Belisarius - 22-Nov-2008 at 21:53
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Roberts
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Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 22:20 |
Same old story, Belisarius.
I actually remember reading about excavations from one 15th century battle site in England (From the Wars of the roses). The soldiers compared with modern man were indeed shorter - around 1,70m to 1,75m, but they were lot sturdy. So there is your average knight, count Belisarius, The knights in southern Europe were even more shorter than that. Seriously no one buys into your rantings about medieval armor being made for 6' to 6' 5'' tall studs.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 22:51 |
Yet the fact remains that real battle armor was built for guys who were six five. and you have given me no sources whatsoever, and this thread is about Knight vs. samurai, not about how tall medieval people were, people like you take one phrase and run with it ruining perfectly good threads. please go start your own thread.
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Byzantine Emperor
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Kastrophylax kai Tzaousios
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Posted: 28-Jul-2008 at 22:56 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Yet the fact remains that real battle armor was built for guys who were six five. and you have given me no sources whatsoever, and this thread is about Knight vs. samurai, not about how tall medieval people were, people like you take one phrase and run with it ruining perfectly good threads. please go start your own thread. |
Count Belisarius, I think you are perceiving conflict where there may not be any. Please try to be a bit more cordial to others who post in the topic. You will find that people will be less willing to discuss if you appear too quarrelsome. Thanks.
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SearchAndDestroy
Caliph
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 03:25 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Your word against a college professor who research's these things and reads actual roman military documents. also this thread is about knight vs. samurai not about the roman army, please, please go make your own thread. also the romans may have excepted shorter soldiers, provided they had enough brawn to make up for it, and medieval armor is made for men who just under six feet or who were six five. also those bones may not be legionnaires, they could be camp followers, or mabye people exhumed the soldiers remains and buried someone else there, and the soldiers actual remains got thrown into the tiber |
All I asked for was the page? I have the book of this Prefessor, the exact book you brought up. Can you please tell me, I assume it's not a secret and I am interested for the reasons I said above.
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"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Adalwolf
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 03:58 |
Okay, only people 6 foot plus were knights?
That is completely false.
It is pretty much common knowledge that people in the past were shorter than people today for whatever reasons- diet, climate, etc.
Today the average height for men isn't 6 feet tall. Its more like 5'8''-5'10''.
In the US the average height for men is about 5'10''. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_average_height_for_men_in_the_US
If the average height of today isn't even 6 foot, there is absolutely know way that only men 6 feet tall or greater were accepted as knights hundreds of years ago.
Edited by Adalwolf - 29-Jul-2008 at 03:59
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Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
Edward Abbey
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 04:57 |
Yet the fact remains that medieval armor is made for men who were just under six feet, or six five.
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Adalwolf
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 06:34 |
I'm sure there were some knights who were 6'5. But the majority? No.
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Concrete is heavy; iron is hard--but the grass will prevail.
Edward Abbey
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gcle2003
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 10:54 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
The complete roman army, by Adrian Goldsworthy |
Goldsworthy is not a professor. Also he is a specialist in Roman history, so why anyone should take any particular notice of his views on either Japanes history or medieval Europe I don't know.
Incidentally, since when could you tell the height of a Roman from his armour?
Edited by gcle2003 - 29-Jul-2008 at 11:16
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gcle2003
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 11:14 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Yet the fact remains that real battle armor was built for guys who were six five. and you have given me no sources whatsoever, and this thread is about Knight vs. samurai, not about how tall medieval people were, people like you take one phrase and run with it ruining perfectly good threads. please go start your own thread. |
But you're the one who started all the stuff about how tall knights were, with your proposition that they averaged 6ft 5 inches. Also you've given no sources to support your proposition (which runs counter to standard beliefs) - all you've done is quote a researcher on the Roman army as if that had anything to do with anything.
And you can't even give a page reference in that book either.
For a detailed study of height developments over the last two millenia (a pretty complex affair) see http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/wwl/koepke_baten_twomillennia.pdf . Go to page 17 for a quick reference. But don't get confused by the fact that at first sight it seems women were taller than males at one time: the male and female lines use different scales.
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Cezar
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 12:07 |
Before the "knight" will make a choice of weapons and armor the samurai will be too old to fight.
How about a samurai vs knight, each using the oponent complement(s) of weapons and armor?
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 14:43 |
what period weapons and armor?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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gcle2003
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Posted: 29-Jul-2008 at 14:53 |
Originally posted by Cezar
Before the "knight" will make a choice of weapons and armor the samurai will be too old to fight.
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Good article.
... To be fair, while there is an extraordinary amount of nonsense and fantasy surrounding historical European swords and sword arts, there is a good deal of myth and ignorance on the true teachings of historical Japanese fencing. ...
... In the end though, my own answer to the question of who would win is that it is unanswerable.
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Slayertplsko
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 12:12 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
what period weapons and armor? |
What page? (the one Search and Destroy asked you for)
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hugoestr
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 14:05 |
I believe that the source of the armor was made for 6'5'' people may be the link that Cezar shared with us. I found that discussed there, immediately following the statement that most Europeans at the time were much shorter than that.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 14:39 |
Most, as in the peasants who wern't wealthy enough to afford meat
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Roberts
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 16:03 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Most, as in the peasants who wern't wealthy enough to afford meat |
Peasants were wealthy enough to keep chickens, pigs and cows for meat.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 17:38 |
Yeah and guess who got the lions share? also they had to pay taxes.
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Slayertplsko
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Posted: 30-Jul-2008 at 21:42 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
Yeah and guess who got the lions share? also they had to pay taxes. |
Excuuuse me?!
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