Europe as it should be

Europe as it should be: 300 nations together, one for all and all for one!

Originally posted by Spartakus A map would be better.....

Pike I exactly agree with you, all too often Europe has been divided, each one of its countries being a mere card in the games of the real player.

Dividing Europe in smaller entities would change that. I mean France, England or Spain are nearly irrelevant geopolitically, but the little relevance they preserve make them behave foolishly.

If Corsica, Devon and the Basque Country were independent, it is unlikely they'd try to use the same types of tactics as the European nations are doing nowadays. On the contrary, they'd be forced to unite when it comes to defense matters as well as many foreign policy ones.

That would be a chance for a united Europe, a real actor rather than a pitch were others fight. It would also change the relationship with Russia that could not use one country against the other any more and would be forced to become a partner rather than an unfriendly neighbour.

I don't think it is that gloomy (Maghrebi countries have no chance to become failed states).

When it comes to defense tho you are perfectly right, Europe is a dwarf with severe bipolar disorder.

I mean not only are Euro forces smaller but they are also less efficient (old material, less soldiers on the ground and more logistical personnel than the US army, etc.).

That is one of the main reasons why a core group of countries have to create an European army. Some countries may be more reluctant than others but I don't see why the German, French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch and Belgian armies couldn't be merged, they have rather similar materials, some spend more than others but that could be solved on the long run, and there would be massive savings to be done!

Thanks for incorporating the Scandinavia-Baltic area..

But put seriously, if the outer states would support the larger realms financially in defense then they would have to defend the lesser ones - much more efficient than the current rather incomprehensible defense plans (what's it, someone has to defend for two months before NATO helps?)

The way for Europe to be a major player is to unite and that is being done in the EU. The more centralized the EU is the more vital a role Europe will play in world affairs. This may push Russia away but there is few things that would strengthen the bulk of Europe that would not push Russia way.

On the matter of defense you can hardly call the larger states in Europe large when compared to many other nations. With all the technology we have out our disposale; faster than sound travel, highway systems, etc, if a nation the size of say France or Spain can't defend itself then there is something seriously wrong with their defense department.

Besides if we start things such as Normandy nationalism radicals would want parts of England. No matter how you would draw the map balkanization would occur. The current situation in Europe is very stable outside of the Balkans and pushing this agenda through would just bring ruin the peace Europe has had since the end of Berlin Air Lift.


Edited by Donasin - 01-Jul-2008 at 19:42

Originally posted by Temujin push Russia away? the EU is not Nazi Germany... and centralization is reserved for the evil empires, real democracies are decentralized.

By centralization I mean having at least a base control over the area. Federalism would be a better word, my mistake.

most of europe is in the NATO, so why should European countries waste money on defense while the highly modern and large US Army protects us? why should europe arm up anyways, who is europe's enemy?

Europe doesn't have an enemy at the moment but I am merely saying that the current system of states can defend themselves and a unified Europe would have no problem doing so. Confederacies often fail to defend themselves well, case and point the CSA. States would hold supplies to 'protect their rights' while the national army hardly had enough shoes for their men.
Also NATO is an alliance its not a shield maybe the US could start working its way out of debt if more people saw it as sucg.

there was no balkanization in switzerland and switzerland is a confederacy since the high middle ages and there was only one civil war (based on religion) if you don't include the chaos in the wake of the French Revolution. and switzerland has 4 different ethnicites that peacefully co-existed ever since.

But there is also high Swiss nationalism which overrides the different ethic groups. The threat of adding more ethnic groups (African immigration) is bringing this out in the nation.

Europe to me should roughly correspond to the Roman Empire. 

Originally posted by longshanks31 I have to say that on the whole relations between europe, north america and russia are as good as they have ever been.

What is your view of below analysis:

http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geo

Here is another map:



You might like this to:

Sarkozy pushes Mediterranean Union
The French president sees support for plans that would group nations as diverse as Libya and Spain.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0824/p07s02-woeu.html

or even this:
The North American Union




If I was Mr. Rogers I would say' "what does this spell children?"
G-L-O-B-A-L-I-S-M


How would you like to be my neighbor????

Edited by eaglecap - 27-Jul-2008 at 16:43