Is Germanic a subgroup of the Iranian languages?

About the developement of sounds: maybe Cyrus also has an explanation for the Czech 'ř' sound, an alveolar fricative-trill consonant (the only in the world to my knowledge) - who did they inherit it from?? It wasn't in PIE, Iranian, Celtic, Germanic, Italic, Greek etc. It wasn't in Proto-Slavic. It's probable it was developed in Old West Slavic, since Polish language still writes the voiced palatal fricative with 'rz' in some words (ź in other), which leads us to conclusion that 'ź' and 'rz' represent two formerly different consonants that merged into a single consonant. The same can be said about Sorbian 'ř' which is pronounced 'sh', just like 'š'.

So, who did they borrow it from Cyrus?? Who had it??

By your logics, it would have to be borrowed from some other language, let's say Avar. Avars would have to borrow it from their ancestors, their ancestors from their ancestors, and we are right in 3,000,000 BCE. And we would end up with a claim that australopithecus had a fully developed articulated speech!!

Yes, it is very often random that a sound develops/changes. Zulu, Vietnamese, Czech, Maori - each of them possesses some kind of 'exotic' sound in their phonology system and it was a random developement.


Edited by Slayertplsko - 15-Jun-2008 at 16:14

Cyrus, there is no way how Persian language could have influenced English, because the nearest Persian was 3000km far away!!

And yes those shifts are random, we have already proved it.


Edited by Slayertplsko - 15-Jun-2008 at 19:19

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri We can compare "Chin" with "Knee", "Cheek" with "Kick" and maybe "Chew" with "Come"!

WHAT??

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri In effect, yes. All these sound shifts are random, in the sense they are purposeless and aimless and unco-ordinated. There's no reason why 'k' should change to 'ch' at one particular place or time. You should just say that you don't know why, it is enough that you compare these words with Persian ones then you will find the reasons.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri The persian word for "face" is "Chihre", similar to Old French "Chiere", we see some parts of the face also start with "ch" sound, such as "Chashm" (eye). In English there are Cheek (Persian "Chak"), Chin (Persian Chane) and I believe the verb Chew (Middle Persian "Chuvtan", Modern Persian Javidan -> Jaw in English) ceratinly relate these words.

I can't find 'chak' in the dictionary.

Cyrus, there is no way how Persian language could have influenced English, because the nearest Persian was 3000km far away!!

What are the distances between England and America or England and Australia? What is the relation between "influence" and "distance"? Do you want that I list numerous Persian words in the Comorian language? Do you know where Comoros Islands are?

And you still didn't reply to some of my questions:

1, where is it that I say there is no 'x' sound in Germanic languages???
2, who gave the 'ř' to western Slavs???

I'm especially interested in the second one. The first one was caused by you lacking the knowledge of phonological terms, OK you needn't answer the first one if you can't.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri You said "kh - voiced x (often transcribed gh)...'x' is voiceless velar fricative, and it says voiced, so..."

The link says: 'gh' (in English, not Avestan!) was pronounced as 'ch' in Scottish 'loch' - and that's voiceless velar fricative.

The source about Avestan says that voiced velar fricative is often transcribed as 'gh'. And as you know, I was talking about the voiced one.

The voiceless velar fricative is transcribed differently in each language! Slavic use 'ch' or 'h', Celtic use 'ch', some use 'kh', Spanish used once 'x' (Mexico) and now uses 'j' and so on. And it's still the same sound.

Do you even know the difference between voiced and voiceless?

Anyway, what does English have to do with the topic of the thread?? Let's go back to the topic: 'Is Germanic a subgroup of Iranian?'. Why are you changing the topic so often??

Is English a Germanic language or not? Are those words, that I mentioned, Germanic or not?

The fact is that you can find all Avestan Consonants in the Germanic "own" words, you say some modern Germanic languages lack some sounds, what does it prove? Isn't it obvious that they have lost those sounds?

Arabs and Persian have lived near, with and among one another for hundreds years, there are numerous Persian words in the Arabic language but Arabic lacks some phonetic sounds found in the Persian, such "ch", "p", ... just tell me one Arabic "loan" word from Persian with these sounds, if you find an Arabic "own" word then I will say Arabic is the same Persian!

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Cyrus, there is no way how Persian language could have influenced English, because the nearest Persian was 3000km far away!! What are the distances between England and America or England and Australia?