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ulrich von hutten
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Topic: EUropean Championship 2008 Posted: 28-May-2008 at 14:22 |
Football, of course, and the first one who will type soccer will beheaded soon.
Next Saturday the Championship will start in Austria and Switzerland. One month of beatitude and clash with the family.
Guys, and here i mean King Kang, Temujin, my turkish and greek friends and the other few from the british empire, you are invited to tell us your predictions and maledictions. ( Oh, i forgot about, England is staying home, it's staying ( melody: football's coming home)....)
My favourite team (although Iceland didn't qualify) is Germany , of course. But i think he usual suspects, like France, Italy and Holland are a good bet.
Underdogs are Greece, Portugal and Russia.
But we will see.
Today the squads have to nominated by the national associations.
The German squad is:
Tor: Jens Lehmann (FC Arsenal), Robert Enke (Hannover 96), Rene Adler (Bayer Leverkusen)
Defense: Christoph Metzelder (Real Madrid), Per Mertesacker (Werder Bremen), Philipp Lahm (Bayern München), Arne Friedrich Hertha BSC Berlin), Marcell Jansen (Bayern München), Clemens Fritz (Werder Bremen), Heiko Westermann (Schalke 04)
Midfield: Michael Ballack (FC Chelsea), Thomas Hitzlsperger (VfB Stuttgart), Simon Rolfes (Bayer Leverkusen), Torsten Frings Werder Bremen), Bastian Schweinsteiger (Bayern München), Piotr Trochowski (Hamburger SV ), Tim Borowski (Werder Bremen), David Odonkor (Betis Sevilla)
Attack: Miroslav Klose (Bayern München), Lukas Podolski (Bayern München), Mario Gomez (VfB Stuttgart), Kevin Kuranyi (Schalke 04), Oliver Neuville (Borussia Mönchengladbach)
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 28-May-2008 at 14:44 |
Well, last cup showed that any team can win. I don't have any special team I believe in this year, but as long as Germany doesn't I'm happy ;) Sweden won't for sure, with the injured- and out-of-form-ridden team. What has made Sweden do well in the past - a solid defence - has during the last couple of years been a catastroph. Only Mellberg is any good. The offensive is for once very good, but we are used to play solid defence and score on counter-attacks. We've played basicly the same boring game as the Greek utilized to win last time and aren't used to offensive games (and the midfield will have problems against the more solid teams to back up an offense anyway). However, I've been looking forward to it for a long while, and will follow the whole thing. I'm considering going down to Europe to experience the atmosphere  Goalkeepers- Andreas Isaksson (Manchester City)
- Rami Shaaban (Hammarby IF)
- Johan Wiland (IF Elfsborg)
Defenders- Olof Mellberg (Aston Villa)
- Petter Hansson (Stade Rennais FC)
- Fredrik Stoor (Rosenborg)
- Daniel Majstorovic (FC Basel)
- Andreas Granqvist (Wigan Athletic)
- Mikael Dorsin (CFL Cluj)
Midfielders- Mikael Nilsson (Panathinaikos)
- Tobias Linderoth (Galatasaray)
- Niclas Alexandersson (IFK Göteborg)
- Anders Svensson (IF Elfsborg)
- Fredrik Ljungberg (West Ham United)
- Kim Källström (Lyon)
- Sebastian Larsson (Birmingham City)
- Daniel Andersson (Malmö FF)
- Christian Wilhelmsson (Deportivo La Coruña)
Forwards- Zlatan Ibrahimović (Inter)
- Johan Elmander (Toulouse FC)
- Henrik Larsson (Helsingborgs If)
- Marcus Allbäck (Örgryte IS)
- Markus Rosenberg (Werder Bremen)
Three of the most important players -Ljungberg, Linderoth and Ibrahimovic - are all having problems with injuries. Will be interesting, to say the least.
Edited by Styrbiorn - 28-May-2008 at 15:00
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 28-May-2008 at 15:00 |
Ibrahimovic has to show, whether he is really a good player or only a loud-mouth.
Larson is beyond his peak and till now i had many sympathies for the Swedish people and the Swedish team.
But after Styrbiorn's utterences about the German team , i have to rethink.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 28-May-2008 at 15:07 |
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten
Ibrahimovic has to show, whether he is really a good player or only a loud-mouth.
Larson is beyond his peak and till now i had many sympathies for the Swedish people and the Swedish team.
But after Styrbiorn's utterences about the German team , i have to rethink. |
We want revenge for the humiliation in the World Cup - but do notice the smiley I put there, it wasn't all too seriously meant  Ibrahimovic is sure good enough - look how he finished the Scudetto. His problem is in his maybe-injured legs. He has less talented backup players, which will affect him. He has shown to be lazy when he doesn't get the best passes (and he was indeed terrible in the WC). Larsson is indeed beyond peek, but he was still old when he engineered Barcelona's Champions League win and the United episode. He may be old, but he's a physical phenomenon. His greatest asset is the effect he will have on the team though - he's an incredible leader and will raise the morale a lot.
Edited by Styrbiorn - 28-May-2008 at 15:08
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Guests
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Posted: 28-May-2008 at 16:39 |
Germany has a good chance in my mind.
I am also mainly rooting for Turkey and Croatia in this. I hope Turkiye can repeat a top 3 spot as in the WC. Croatia screwed up bad in WC but i think they have a good chance to advance far enough.
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King Kang of Mu
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Posted: 28-May-2008 at 17:07 |
Yeahhhhhhhhhh! Football's back(in a week)
Love Euro Cup! Love Copa America too but the competition drops off after top 3-4 teams. First I'll start out with what I see as strongest to weakest. I can only watch the bigger leagues so if I'm biased to the teams with players that performed well in bigger leagues, please forgive me. I can only write as I see them.
The Contenders(Teams that should be in Semi and can win it all)
1. France 2. Portugal 3. Netherlands
The Dark Horses(Teams that can be in Semi and outside shot at winning) 4. Italy 5. Germany 6. Spain 7. Croatia
The Pretenders(Teams that has outside shot at Semi but won't win it all) 8. Romania 9. Turkey 10. Swiss 11. Czech Republic 12. Greece 13. Russia 14. Sweden
Thanks for showing up(Teams would need much luck or home cooking to get out of Group stage) 15. Poland 16. Austria
Don't get upset if I didn't give your team favorable view. Though I will stand by my pick, I do have touch of death thing. I'm good at jinxing good teams, so perhaps you don't wanna be at the top of my list.
I will go through group by group and several contenders roster and analysis later.
Edited by King Kang of Mu - 28-May-2008 at 17:22
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 07:01 |
First goal for the Bundesliga.
57 participants of the different EC Team are earning their fees in the Bundesliga. 43 are playing in the Premier League , 41 in Primera División (Spain) and 36 in the Seria A (Italy).
This result is a bit blurred cause the team for the british island (England ?) didn't qualify.
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Guests
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 07:17 |
There is no United Kingdom football team. Stupid really they might actually win something then.
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 07:30 |
Germany's next Sportmodel...
home....
and away..
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King Kang of Mu
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 14:39 |
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten
First goal for the Bundesliga.
57 participants of the different EC Team are earning their fees in the Bundesliga. 43 are playing in the Premier League , 41 in Primera División (Spain) and 36 in the Seria A (Italy).
This result is a bit blurred cause the team for the british island (England ?) didn't qualify. |
Wow, cool stat! Yeah, if England got in that would shot up their numbers because most of them play in England. German Clubs seems to have more Eastern Euopean national team level players. Spain and Italy get bigger participation from S. American players. Seria A is also still suffering from game fixing scandals. I wonder what would be numbers for last world Cup? Or for every world Cup and Euro Cup. Thanks for the cool stat!
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Temujin
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 19:28 |
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu
Yeahhhhhhhhhh! Football's back(in a week)
Love Euro Cup! Love Copa America too but the competition drops off after top 3-4 teams. First I'll start out with what I see as strongest to weakest. I can only watch the bigger leagues so if I'm biased to the teams with players that performed well in bigger leagues, please forgive me. I can only write as I see them.
The Contenders(Teams that should be in Semi and can win it all)
1. France 2. Portugal 3. Netherlands
The Dark Horses(Teams that can be in Semi and outside shot at winning) 4. Italy 5. Germany 6. Spain 7. Croatia
The Pretenders(Teams that has outside shot at Semi but won't win it all) 8. Romania 9. Turkey 10. Swiss 11. Czech Republic 12. Greece 13. Russia 14. Sweden
Thanks for showing up(Teams would need much luck or home cooking to get out of Group stage) 15. Poland 16. Austria
Don't get upset if I didn't give your team favorable view. Though I will stand by my pick, I do have touch of death thing. I'm good at jinxing good teams, so perhaps you don't wanna be at the top of my list.
I will go through group by group and several contenders roster and analysis later.
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whoah, need to jump in here. out of your fav 3, i can only agree with Portugal and Netherlands. France? they only have Ribery, the rest depends on strong players to carry them (Zidane) them ranking second in the last WC was by 50% chance and 50% Zidane. this time they will have neither and seriously won't even proceed to the finals due tot heir group (Italy, Romania, Netherlands). Netherlands, though, have good players but suck as a team, god knows why. i'm still undecided if i should bet on italy and Netherlands or italy and Romania. secodn group: Germany and italy are certainly first tier even though Germany has pissed me off by the Belarus match. don't know why you place italy so low, they have no serious competition in europe other than Germany and Portugal. Spain and croatia i can't udnerstand. Spain will play without bojan and raul. the strognest in their group i think is Greece in my opinion, even if it sounds odd. Croatia, well they used to be better but always someone to reckon with. your 3rd tier is ok, but why you placed Poland together with Austria? didn't they won their qualification group? or at least second to Portugal iirc. would certainly not dismiss them. i think they have good chances against Croatia but who kows what Austria will do, they have no skill but strong will and even a draw can mean a lot in this group. Turkey has unfortunately dissapointed me and i'm not too sure if they beat a weakened but still strong Czech team or Swiss who play in their own country.
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King Kang of Mu
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 20:15 |
I did put Germany originally in as contenders but I saw the Belarus highlight. You are right I shouldn't judge this German squad based on just one game. I still think they overachieved little bit in WC and they still got some questions in the roster. Mainly either Poldolski or Schweinseitger have to contribute more. Ballack's been playing better in the later part of EPL so that will definitely help Germany. If Gomez can solidify his spot next to Klose that will help a lot too which I see it happening for sure. Borowski can also step up big time in this tournament. Kahn's presence on and off the field will be missed too. So I think they have some questions to answer but there are many unproven elements that could turn out positively. So I have no Problrm putting back on the contender spot.
France I think you are underestimating them little bit. True, no more Zidane and Henry is the same any more. But Ribery is world class like we all agree and I like emergence of Malouda and Abidal too. Makalele and Viera are still world class. Thuram, Gallas, Mexes all solid and can handle the ball from the backfield. I think the question for France is how fast can they walk away from Henry if he proves to be ineffective. I do think they got some weapons that can step up other than Henry and Ribery. Cisse and Anelka are eager to prove to their second, third chances at the Les Bleus. Benzema and Ben Arfa could step up too. And have you seen that Gomis kid? I just saw him against Ecuador, he looked fantasitc. Actually I just found out they dropped Cisse for Gomis. I know it's just one friendly game but I think Ecuador is more formitable than Belarus except Hleb. But yes I do agree on the possibility of France might not even get out of the group stage. It's the group of death for this tournament. Any team can get out of that group.
I'll be back with Italy, Protugal, Netherlands and Spain later.
Edited by King Kang of Mu - 29-May-2008 at 20:38
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Chookie
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 20:29 |
Originally posted by Sparten
There is no United Kingdom football team. Stupid really they might actually win something then. |
Nor will there ever be. There are four national football associations in the UK and none of them trust any of the others.
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For money you did what guns could not do.........
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Temujin
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 21:53 |
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu
I did put Germany originally in as contenders but I saw the Belarus highlight. You are right I shouldn't judge this German squad based on just one game. I still think they overachieved little bit in WC and they still got some questions in the roster. Mainly either Poldolski or Schweinseitger have to contribute more. Ballack's been playing better in the later part of EPL so that will definitely help Germany. If Gomez can solidify his spot next to Klose that will help a lot too which I see it happening for sure. Borowski can also step up big time in this tournament. Kahn's presence on and off the field will be missed too. So I think they have some questions to answer but there are many unproven elements that could turn out positively. So I have no Problrm putting back on the contender spot. |
i pretty much agree with yoru assessment, but considdering all that, Germany still compares more favoruably to most others, particularly France, because simply France has soem men as you demonstrated but major leagues and national teams are always two worlds entirely, just look at the Netherlands. i expect the results you expect from France achieved by the oranjes. you know oranjes and Germany are arch-enemies and i'm quite favourable towards France but thats what i think. the Dutch can shape a team but France can't. Ribery and only Ribery can make a difference and i don't think he has reahced his best perfromance yet, so France will only make a potent competitor in (near) future tournaments.
in regards to Germany, i could mention dozens of issues but it would make Germany look even more pathetic than Austria  i'm very critical afterall.
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Majkes
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 23:24 |
I agree with Temujin about favourites. Defenately Germans and italy are bigger fav then Portugal or France. Netherland I even don't consider as one of the favourites. They have great players but since Van basten, Gulit, rijkard team they suck on tournaments. Euro should be won by 2 I mentioned before or some black horse will appear - I would bet on Croatia or Czech Republic.
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Majkes
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Posted: 29-May-2008 at 23:31 |
In my opinion pre-Euro friendly games have no importance and especially results. Coaches just check diffrent options so I wouldn't be very optimistic despite last Germany result. Especially that I think it wasn't the first team.
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King Kang of Mu
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Posted: 30-May-2008 at 04:05 |
Hallo, Temujin and Majkes. It's great to talk football with you guys again. You guys are right on not reading too much into the friendlies going into the Cup. I remember when Lothar Mattheus managing Hungary slaughtered Germany in a friendly going into last WC in Germany. Germany did fine in that Cup with the third place finish. Although a third palce at home is a disappointment in traditional German standard. But then again, I thought they rather overschieve for the squad they had. Either way you guys convinced me enough that I would consider Germany as much of a contender as any other team in this Cup. 
I do think though France is just as stong as Germany, if not more. Yes, both Germany and Italy are top two defensive power houses traditionally. But this French defense is every bit as good as the German defense. Wow, when do you ever get to say that if it wasn't for football? Maybe Italian defense is slightly better than both. But we are talking about top 3-4 defenses in the world. They are all good. Thuram, Gallas, Abidal, Mexes, Evra, Boumsong are just as good of defenders as Lahm, Metzelder, Maresacker, Jensen, Friedrich and Fritz. Maybe Germans are better on defending aerial attacks and French are slightly better on the ball, ground defenders. French defenders can also handle the ball better than German counter parts exception of Lahm and Jensen. So I think the defenders are toss up between two teams.
What I give the French defense slight edge is though, Makalele and Viera over Frings, Borowski, Hitzlsperger combos(is Hilbert on the roster too? I didn't see his name). And if you look at my Budesliga postings past year, you will see I like all three German holding/defensive midfielders. I just think as old as they are Makalele is still the best at his position and Viera is still a imposing figure in the middle even if he's no longer Viera of Arsenal days.
Lehman's slightly more experienced than Coupet international and club level, but coupet ain't no ordinary backup keeper stepping in either. Both spent much of their career under shadows of Kahn and Barthez. I like Lehman's instincts better but slightly more neuratic and Coupet's more consistent. But it's nothing like catching a hot keeper in a tournament and Lehman can get hotter than Coupet. I say it's a wash here too.
So it comes down to the offense for me. Yes, no more Zidane. Yes, Henry is a damaged good now. No more Trezeguet either. But to say Ribery is the only threat is also a bit of overstatement against their offense. Plus, 'only Ribery' is still more than one more Ribery than what Germany's got. (Note to self: ok, remember to take a deep bresthe before saying something like that to this crowd  ) Then again Klose is better than anything France can use as the targetman.  And I can see Gomez stepping up big time.  And that can tip the scale. But that is not a proven formular yet. But who's getting them the ball? Podolski, Schweinsteiger, Ballack? That's supposed to be better than Ribery, Malouda, Govou, Nasri options? That's a hard sell for me.
You know what though, as it's been mentioned France could easily not make it out of the group stage. And that's probably what will happen now I've jinxed them with my support  . But if Germany is that group they might not get out that either. But Germany does have easier group schedule and being in Swiss/Austria also gives Germans slight edge.
I have no personal vandetta or dislike against Germany or German players nor I think they have a bad team. I just think France is just as good or better. But I understand. If somebody told me, Japanese team is better than Korean team  , I will argue even if that is the truth  , which it is not  , thank god  .
Since I have no French supportrers to please in this forum  , I will be happy for you guys if Germany and France meet in later rounds and Germany wins.
Woo I got stuck in Germany and France again. I'll be back with Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain later, for real.
Take care fellas.
Edited by King Kang of Mu - 30-May-2008 at 04:57
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 30-May-2008 at 06:33 |
The augurs gave their statements. But the ugurs will fail once again.
Greece will do it!!!
Ok, to be serious. France will play a good role. This team is managed by a very clever coach and has beside Ribery some other very good but underestimated players.
Portugal and Spain do have always frouzy beachsoccer players and will never win a championship....
Netherlands, traditional one of the favourites, but always with many jelousies and vanties among their players.
Italy, although i realy don't like this team of lay-actors, will have an important role at the championship awarding.
But who knows, will there be another "Greek" team, like Croatia , Romania,Russia, Turkey or Greece? We will see.
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Majkes
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Posted: 30-May-2008 at 18:37 |
Originally posted by King Kang of Mu
Hallo, Temujin and Majkes. It's great to talk football with you guys again. You guys are right on not reading too much into the friendlies going into the Cup. I remember when Lothar Mattheus managing Hungary slaughtered Germany in a friendly going into last WC in Germany. Germany did fine in that Cup with the third place finish. Although a third palce at home is a disappointment in traditional German standard. But then again, I thought they rather overschieve for the squad they had. Either way you guys convinced me enough that I would consider Germany as much of a contender as any other team in this Cup. 
I do think though France is just as stong as Germany, if not more. Yes, both Germany and Italy are top two defensive power houses traditionally. But this French defense is every bit as good as the German defense. Wow, when do you ever get to say that if it wasn't for football? Maybe Italian defense is slightly better than both. But we are talking about top 3-4 defenses in the world. They are all good. Thuram, Gallas, Abidal, Mexes, Evra, Boumsong are just as good of defenders as Lahm, Metzelder, Maresacker, Jensen, Friedrich and Fritz. Maybe Germans are better on defending aerial attacks and French are slightly better on the ball, ground defenders. French defenders can also handle the ball better than German counter parts exception of Lahm and Jensen. So I think the defenders are toss up between two teams.
What I give the French defense slight edge is though, Makalele and Viera over Frings, Borowski, Hitzlsperger combos(is Hilbert on the roster too? I didn't see his name). And if you look at my Budesliga postings past year, you will see I like all three German holding/defensive midfielders. I just think as old as they are Makalele is still the best at his position and Viera is still a imposing figure in the middle even if he's no longer Viera of Arsenal days.
Lehman's slightly more experienced than Coupet international and club level, but coupet ain't no ordinary backup keeper stepping in either. Both spent much of their career under shadows of Kahn and Barthez. I like Lehman's instincts better but slightly more neuratic and Coupet's more consistent. But it's nothing like catching a hot keeper in a tournament and Lehman can get hotter than Coupet. I say it's a wash here too.
So it comes down to the offense for me. Yes, no more Zidane. Yes, Henry is a damaged good now. No more Trezeguet either. But to say Ribery is the only threat is also a bit of overstatement against their offense. Plus, 'only Ribery' is still more than one more Ribery than what Germany's got. (Note to self: ok, remember to take a deep bresthe before saying something like that to this crowd  ) Then again Klose is better than anything France can use as the targetman.  And I can see Gomez stepping up big time.  And that can tip the scale. But that is not a proven formular yet. But who's getting them the ball? Podolski, Schweinsteiger, Ballack? That's supposed to be better than Ribery, Malouda, Govou, Nasri options? That's a hard sell for me.
You know what though, as it's been mentioned France could easily not make it out of the group stage. And that's probably what will happen now I've jinxed them with my support  . But if Germany is that group they might not get out that either. But Germany does have easier group schedule and being in Swiss/Austria also gives Germans slight edge.
I have no personal vandetta or dislike against Germany or German players nor I think they have a bad team. I just think France is just as good or better. But I understand. If somebody told me, Japanese team is better than Korean team  , I will argue even if that is the truth  , which it is not  , thank god  .
Since I have no French supportrers to please in this forum  , I will be happy for you guys if Germany and France meet in later rounds and Germany wins.
Woo I got stuck in Germany and France again. I'll be back with Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Spain later, for real.
Take care fellas. |
Nice review  . Only few words from me. Germany's biggest problem seems to be their defence and Lehman who is in a bad shape. Their attack should be very dangerous. French will be dangerous but I wouldn't bet on them. They seem to lack hunger of winning. Some players like Vieira and Makelele achieved everything.
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Flipper
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Posted: 30-May-2008 at 19:28 |
It is difficult to do predictions...We're talking about 16 teams in a continent full of good teams. I believe the key is focus and stability from start to the end. The groups phase is the one that will put a mark on the teams and their mentality. In the knock out matches anything can happen. When we're talking about knockouts, I believe the Italians are the most venomus. I guess we all know how capable they are to get a result in the last minute. The Germans as we know are fighters who can chase the vicroty from the first to the last second. Russia is a team with players playing together in their club teams, they will be a hard nutt. I feel this euro will be once again a hard contest...
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Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va!
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