The Battle of the Somme

i believe that the battle of the somme was one of the most brutal and mindless battle ever fought. it was lions led by donkeys, the generals were the donkeys. do you agree?

The phrase "Lions led by donkeys" were taken from a conversation between the German field marshals Hindenburg and Ludendorff which apparently never even took place. There's no proof it happened! The historian/politician "Lions led by donkeys' was also the Alan Clark's view in his book 'The Donkeys'. It is the popular image of a British generation mowed down by German machine guns, while the officers stayed safely in the rear. (like General Malchett in Blackadder goes forth).
But in reality, generals were also very vunerable. They were much closer to the front than most people realise. "The generals who died were actually more likely to be killed by small-arms fire than the men they commanded, which says much about their proximity to the front." richard Holmes Tommy

The Somme was the result of the British way of raising a mass army. Rather than grow an army from the exsisting territorial army they decided that they should just train one up from scratch. They then believed that these men should only be given the most rudimentry training, and since they had crappy training they were ordered to advance in lines toward the enemy, and were slaughtered.

WW1 was so full of mistakes and poor reasoning on all sides that it beggars belief.

The biggest crime having been there and seen the actual battlefields was the generals making men walk towards the germans. The distance between the lines in some areas meant it was an order almost to commit suicide.

The very soil you stand on eminates the despair of such fruitless waste of human life

Originally posted by Riain The Somme was the result of the British way of raising a mass army. Rather than grow an army from the exsisting territorial army they decided that they should just train one up from scratch. They then believed that these men should only be given the most rudimentry training, and since they had crappy training they were ordered to advance in lines toward the enemy, and were slaughtered. WW1 was so full of mistakes and poor reasoning on all sides that it beggars belief.

The Somme was preceded by the largest artillery barrage in history. It could be heard in Dover. It was believed that the Germans would be decimated and the British would move into the German trenches unapposed.

It wasn't the soldiers who were the problem. The artillery barrage missed and caused practically no damage to the German trenches. The operation was a failiure at the planning level.

Tell me what battle of World War One was actually significant and important? The entire war was a standstill that was absolutely worthless.

Originally posted by Hannibal Barca Tell me what battle of World War One was actually significant and important? The entire war was a standstill that was absolutely worthless.

Many were important.  One of the most important were the first Battle of the Marne in which the French attack on Von Kluck's corps halted the German drive.  This was the battle that basically ended the war of movement and caused the standstill that resulted for almost four years.

Originally posted by Hannibal Barca Tell me what battle of World War One was actually significant and important? The entire war was a standstill that was absolutely worthless.

Well Jutland was the battle that lost Germany any chance of controlling the seas, and that led directly to the starvation (economic and literal) whic caused Germanies collapse.

On a smaller scale deliberately targeting US shipping and starting the unrestricted submarine offence by sinking a liner full of US citizens wasn't a particuarly great plan.


Edited by tadamson

Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by Riain I'd agree, the British should have waited till at least 1917 to launch a major offensive, and better yet they should have introduced conscription in 1914 so they didn't have to wait even that long.  And, as mentioned earlier, the tactics of most armies at that time were simply outdated.

The reason the offensive took place in 1916 was because of massive pressure from the French.  Remember the French were locked in the titanic struggle of Verdun for most of 1916 and were "demanding" the British relieve the pressure by launching an offensive.  Bit difficult for Britain to refuse given the circumstances. 

Also conscription was not introduced in 1914 because of the huge influx of volunteers when the war began. I don't think anyone could be criticised for failing to forsee the sheer slaughter and scale of casualties that was about to experienced. I think that it was thought that the intial level of volunteers would be adequate for the "limited" and short term conflict expected. I also think that conscription was not possible in 1914 because Britain would not be able to handle the logistics required until the logistical infrastructure had been improved.

Actually I can agree there. For warfare in general that was one of the most important battles in history. It showed what tanks were capable of doing. Although tanks eventually failed during the Great War there initial invincibility showed commanders their extreme importance and with work and study they could becoime the dominant factor on the battlefield which they did.