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The History of Bulgaria

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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The History of Bulgaria
    Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 09:28

Чуди са Вишну Бога,                            The High (Vishnu) God is wondering
Чуди са малу млогу                              He is wondering about (much and less)
Малу млогу три нидели,                       About three weeks
Па си каилъ ни стана                            But he didn't decide
Да си фарли люта грома                      To hurl a frightful thunder

Люта грома, люта срела                       A frightful thunder - a fearful arrow
Да юбие юнаци-те                                 To kill the heroes
Юнаци-те и моми-те;                             The heroes and the maidens  
Лу си рукна Злата майка                       And then cry the Golden mother
Та хи вели ютговори:                             And he's royal answer her:

Ой, ти мале, Злата мале,                        Hey, You, mother, Golden mother
Мольба ти са, мале, моле:                     I have a favour to ask of You:                     
Коледа ми Бога на земе-та                    Do me a God's feast On the Earth                    
На земе-та фафъ гора-та                      On the Earth and in the forest
Та ми седналъ пудъ даро-ту                 And he seated under the trea

Чи му е личенъ-день                              So that's his day important (personal)                              
Личенъ-день Коледовъ-день.               Day important, day of Christmas 
Я ми юнаци гюнефъ сторили                 So the heroes did a sin (Turkish word) to me
Гюнефъ сторили пригришили                They did a sin and they are sinners
Та самъ наетъ сторилъ                            So I (took a decision ?)

Да си фарле люта грома                         To hurl a frightful thunder
Люта грома, люта срела                          Frightful thunder - a fearful arrow
Да осреле млади юнаци                          To shut the young heroes
Млади юнаци, малки моми,                      The young heroes and the young maidens
Чи са глуметъ на чешма-та;                     Because they have a fun (?) at the spring; 

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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 09:46

Коледа Бога каилъ ни става          The Christmas God didn't decide it
Каилъ става да гу родишъ                He decide You to bear him
Да гу родишъ на земе-та                   To bear him on the Earth
Да гу родишъ малку дете,                 To bear him - the little child
Малку дете млада Бога;                    The little child - The young God

Да са шета пу земе-та,                       To walk around the Earth
На рока му Златна книга,                   In his hand - a Golden book
Та си учи млади юнаци                      To teach the young heroes
Млади юнаци малки моми,                 The young heroes and the young maidens
Да ни ми грехъ усторетъ:                   To not do a sin:

Сега, мале, каилъ ли си                     And now, mother are you agree (Turkish word)
Каилъ ли си, ни си каилъ?                 Are You agree or not
Да си слезешъ на земе-та                 To go down on the Earth
Да си родишъ Коледа Бога,              To bear the Christmas God,
Да гу родишъ малку дете                  To bear the little child

Малку дете млада Бога.                     The little child the Young God.
Майка му вели ютговори:                   The mother answer he's royal:
Йоти, Боже, каилъ да ни самъ.          Hey You my God, I shell agree
Вутре си слевамъ на земе-та.            To go dawn on the Earth
Лу ти са молъба моле,                         But I have a supplication to You

Лу да си роде малку дете,                  When (?) I will bear the little child
Да си пратишъ свети Ангелъ              You to send a saintly angel 
Да му донесе Златна книга,                To bring him the Golden book
На лику му ясну сланце,                     On his face - the shining Sun
Какъ са шета пу земе-та                      So to walk around the Earth

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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 09:51

Да си пее ясна книга                      To sing the Golden book
Да си пее да си учи,                       To sing and to teach,
Кой гу види да верува.                   And who see that to believe
Рече майка ни утрече                     Says the mother, she agreed
Зададе са златенъ облакъ            And here came a golden cloud 

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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 10:12

Златенъ облакъ и есничевъ                     A golden cloud - an autumn cloud
Та си закри Злата майка,                          And obscured the Golden mother 
Та си слезе на земе-та                              And she goes down on the Earth
На земе-та, фафъ гора-та.                        On the Earth and in the forest
Лу си седна пудъ даро-ту,                        And she seated under the tree

Де ми седи Коледа Бога,                           Where is seated a Christmas God
Та си майка затруднела                             And she became a "difficult" (began to bear)
Затруднела Коледа Бога.                           "difficult" with the Christmas God (inside her)
Та ми седи фафъ гора-та                          And she stayed in the forest 
Малу млогу деветъ месеца,                      For a time (more and less) of nine months,

Я си ми йоще ни ражда.                             But she didn't bear yet.
Дуръ си слезе на поле-ту,                         Then she goes down on the field
Я си фъ града ни флезе                          But she didn't entering in the town -
Богъ да бие царна харапине                      God to kill the dark Arabian
Царна харапине харапска-та крале,         The dark Arabian - the king Arabian's         

Чи да ми са научи,                                         To "learn his lesson"'                                       
Разедилъ са налютилъ са,                           He became angry and fierce
Та ми сече Злата майка,                                So she bear (the Golden mother)
Злата майка малку дете                                She bear the little child
Малку дете млада Бога                                 A little child - a young God

Та са чуди де да иде,                                     And she's wondering where to go
Низъ поле са вартела                                    She has walks around the field
Вартела са навартала.                                    Round and around
На Бога са нажелилу                                      And the God became sad to watch
Нажелилу натажилу,                                      He became sad and sorrowful,                                  

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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 10:24

Та си прати свети Ангелъ                            And he send a holy Angel
Та си слезе на поле-ту,                               And he goes down on the field
Намери си Злата майка,                               He had find a Golden mother
Фана си е за рока-та                                    He took her hand
Уткара е тука долу                                       And took her down here

Тука долу фъ пещере-та,                            Down here in the cave,
Темна ми пещере потемнела                       The dark cave became darker
Потемнела поцарнела,                                 It became darker and even black
Лу си флела Злата майка                            ?  ? the Golden mother
Ясну ми сланце изгрелу                               And the shining Sun was rise 

Та ми грее фъ пещере-та.                            And it shining in the cave
Замочи са Злата майка                                 And the Golden mother pangs of childbirth 
Замочи са забахта са                                    She has pangs and she has suffered 
Та си роди малку дете                                  And she bears the little child
Малку дете млада Бога,                               The little child - the young God,


Isn't that enough?

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 10:43
Originally posted by Sarmat12

Turkic speakers Khazars, Suvars and Bulgars were in Europe even before Tujue state was established. Those spoke language which was close to Tujue language, and due to the fact the Tujue state later became very powerful and influential the name "Turk" became a designation for all these people speaking related languages.
 
Also Khazars and Suvars and Bulgars were not Mongoloids like Tujue they just spoke related language, that's it.
 
The same situation is now, do Volga and Crimean Tatars look alike with Yakuts or Kyrgyzs?
 
Absolutely not. But their languages are quite close. Close language this is the only thing which can apply to all "Turks" or "Proto-Turks" but not some racial characteristics as you claim.
Bulgars and Khazars cannot be used as an example as they both were shown to be very mixed.  Same can be said for Tatars and Cuvash.
 
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  Quote Pomak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 11:26
Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan


Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan

Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan

This is about 25% of the text. The terms in use of AE don't permit me to post all the text.This is a Bulgarian national (Folklore) song in early-Christian and traditional context mixed with many different elements and singed at the time of Turkish dominance in Bulgaria. In this song is mentioned many times "Vishna God" in meaning of "High God" in Bulgarian language. We have really a lot of that kind of songs which kept an information from thousands of years back. Learn Bulgarian (dialects) and You will understand. I will not translate so enormous text just for your pleasure to deny it after that. Do You want another songs about Mitra?


Unless you have a translation of those posts they will be removed soon. You can add that to the current textwith the edit feature.
Delete it. I have it. It was for All of You, not for me. A logical question: The topic is called "History of Bulgaria". There is some people here, who claim the know better than me the origin and history of Bulgarian people, Isn't it logical they to know Bulgarian language in this case and to not need of translation? If they don't know Bulgarian language, why do they claim they are familiar to the problem? This text is on dialect. It will be much difficult to define this language in the text as "Turkic" or even "Slavic". At last I don't know how to "add" a translation to the already quoted text.


My statement was not a request it was a directive. Since you chose to ignore and challenge our policies not only have your posts been deleted but you are given an "Unofficial Warning", as well. Meaning I was lenient with you. Your next offense will be official.
Seko, You give me an enormous task. Smile The text is very big and I began to regret I posted it. The problem is that this text is on old dialect and even I don't understand some words. And if I eventually translated it , the translation will not be correct. I gues, some uncorrect translation is undesirable here. Isn't it? If it is so important, I will try, but the result will not be very good and all my time here will be spended for this translation. Maybe Pomak will do it better as a descender from the region of Rodopi mountain. if he can not or don't want, I will try. I promise. But then, no more that kind of posts from me (about Mitra, Iima, Alexander the Great and etc.). Because I am just unable to become some translator here.


Unfortunately i don`t speak pomak (bulgarian). Only a few words like "kokoshka, enno, dwe, tri...., kako mumice boski kutu lebenitse" (:

My mother said that pomak is closer to macedonian then to bulgarian.
But both, macedonian and pomak, are dialects of bulgarian.
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 15:56
Originally posted by Anton

Bulgars and Khazars cannot be used as an example as they both were shown to be very mixed.  Same can be said for Tatars and Cuvash.
 
 
Tatars and Chuvashs are also heavily mixed. Especially Tatars. Within one Tatar subethnic group like for example Kazan Tatar you can easily find people who are almost indistinguished from Russians and are blonds with blue eyes at the same time there are also people there with clear Mongoloid features.
 
Also while Siberian Tatars are clear Mongoloids, Crimean Tatars are clear Europoids mixed with Crimean Goths and Italians.
 
The only thing that unite all these people is the related languages.
 
Well so far, historical evidence points that Khazars and Bulgars were Turkic speakers at least in the 11th century (Mahmud Kashgari). Yes, you might say that they probably were not Turkic speakers in the 6th century. May be, but it's just a speculation; not a fact.
 
The idea is proposed that Bulgars felt under the influence of Cumans and Pechenegs and swithced to Turkic before the 11thc entury. However, this hypo is too inconvincing. Pechenegs and Cumans never conquered Volga Bulgaria, never they were able to influence Volga Bulgarian sedentary population. On the contrary, they were influenced by Volga Bulgarians, a quite powerful Eastern European state of its time.
 
The same process happened in Kiev Rus. Pechenegs, Cumans and Torks were culturaly assimilated by the Ancient Rus, they started to speak Russian converted to Christianity and became the protectors of Kiev Rus' borders under the name of "Berendei." The same process was with Volga Bulgarians they influenced Pechenegs and Cumans not vice-versa.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 16:53
Thank you for the translation Balkh-Aryan. Is it also possible to add a link to the respective text?
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  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 17:37

I've got a Leaders of Bulgaria question.  I've been working on the Top 100 leaders and dug into Bulgaria.  And boy, do they have a lot of leaders of note.  I've tried to evaluate them--does this look right, relative to one another?  The number at left is their number in the overall top 100 leaders--at the moment--I've got many other countries to add.  Is this about the right order?

30 Simeon I the Great   927 Bulgaria
36 Kardam   803 Bulgaria
52 Asparukh   695 Bulgaria
55 Ivan Asen II   1241 Bulgaria
58 Ivan Asen I   1196 Bulgaria
59 Peter IV    1197 Bulgaria
60 Tervel   720 Bulgaria
61 Krum   814 Bulgaria
102 Boris I   907 Bulgaria
106 Samuil   1014 Bulgaria
137 Kaloyan   1207 Bulgaria
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 18:25
Originally posted by Seko

Thank you for the translation Balkh-Aryan. Is it also possible to add a link to the respective text?


Yes, but the text in this site is on Bulgarian language. As another sites about the same problems too.
http://ziezi.net/bog.html

There is a lot of mentiones of "Vishna God" in Bulgarian Folklor. You must search for combination: Вишна Бога or Вишну Бога or Вишни Бога.
In Bulgarian language it means "The Highest God". Anyway, the coincidence is very strange, because there's mentiones of Mithra also, as a personal name, but the hero who belongs this name is somehow unclear and mythologised person.
In Bulgarian language "Vishen/ Vishna/ Vishno" is the custom as derivative of "vis" (height), which is a word usen also of the Slavs, but the real derivative is "visok, visoka, visoko". "Vishen" have the similar meaning, but includes a religios idea. Ussually this word is in use when we mean a God as a creator. Anyway, if this word is some influence from Hinduism, we have not many Hinduist's ellements outside of our folklor. This eastersn ellements are alwais in combination with Christian, pre-Christian local (Thracian) and universal motives, so it is very difficult to devide one from another sometimes.
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 20:18
Originally posted by Sarmat12

Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan

This text is on dialect. It will be much difficult to define this language in the text as "Turkic" or even "Slavic".
 
Ridiculous, this text 100% Slavic. I doubt now if you have any idea what really "Slavic" is after this statement.
 
Upgrade your knowledge !


You are right. The dialect from Rodopi mountain is more similar to the Slavic languages (as the Macedonian dialect also, but the Macedonian is a result of serbization). But can You define as "Slavic" and eventually translate so ordinary dialect phrases as:
"Кам та бе?"
"Връи си тражи опинците."
"Гургула фръкна."
"Кумай тука."
"Дайма съм одила с менци на вадата, бате."
"Кусата ми упада, кръкатъ ми съ вцепениъ, дрът съм вечи."
"Туй чуряслу е ръждиву."
"Нимой барай пафтити."
"Гаргити изкълваа ичимикъ."
"Бейми на тлака."
"Жъ мана тоз зид уттукънкъ."
"Ил жъ муй, ил ним' дъ муй."
"Ко съ чешиш дет' ни тъ сърби?"
"Кака убичъ идин пич, мъ он ни йъ ще."
"Девер ми съ сурна в герана."
"Тъкму дъ гъ лашнъ и то съ изсули."

And many many other. Can You? When You do it, then come to talk that this is a Slavic language. Of course, we have a lot of Slavic words, but do You know how many of our common words are actually Bulgarian?
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 20:27
Originally posted by DSMyers1

I've got a Leaders of Bulgaria question.  I've been working on the Top 100 leaders and dug into Bulgaria.  And boy, do they have a lot of leaders of note.  I've tried to evaluate them--does this look right, relative to one another?  The number at left is their number in the overall top 100 leaders--at the moment--I've got many other countries to add.  Is this about the right order?

30 Simeon I the Great   927 Bulgaria
36 Kardam   803 Bulgaria
52 Asparukh   695 Bulgaria
55 Ivan Asen II   1241 Bulgaria
58 Ivan Asen I   1196 Bulgaria
59 Peter IV    1197 Bulgaria
60 Tervel   720 Bulgaria
61 Krum   814 Bulgaria
102 Boris I   907 Bulgaria
106 Samuil   1014 Bulgaria
137 Kaloyan   1207 Bulgaria


I didn't understand your question. How exactly You try to evaluate them? In kilograms? In meters? Smile  If You want the list of our rulers with their ruling time, I can post it to You. But it is long. If You want to understand who of them are greater then another, I am afraid that this is very relatively and a question of personal opinion.
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  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 20:46
Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan



I didn't understand your question. How exactly You try to evaluate them? In kilograms? In meters? Smile  If You want the list of our rulers with their ruling time, I can post it to You. But it is long. If You want to understand who of them are greater then another, I am afraid that this is very relatively and a question of personal opinion.
 
Sorry about the amiguity--yes, it is a rating of leaders, and yes, it is relative.  Essentially, I try to determine what direction the country (Bulgaria) was headed before their leadership and what direction the country was headed after their leadership.  For example, Asparukh took Bulgaria from nothing to a significant power.  Kardam took a very weak and disorganized country and solidified it into a significant power again.  I'm just trying to get a feel for who were the greatest leaders of Bulgaria by that standard (as it is the standard, with a little modification, that I am using as the groundwork for the Top 100 Leaders in history ranking).  Thanks!
 
EDIT: I reevaluated the leaders, and here is my updated look at the Bulgarian leaders:
30 Simeon I the Great   927 Bulgaria
41 Asparukh   695 Bulgaria
54 Ivan Asen II   1241 Bulgaria
64 Ivan Asen I   1196 Bulgaria
90 Krum   814 Bulgaria
97 Kardam   803 Bulgaria
100 Boris I   907 Bulgaria
104 Tervel   720 Bulgaria
105 Samuil   1014 Bulgaria
108 Peter IV    1197 Bulgaria
138 Kaloyan   1207 Bulgaria


Edited by DSMyers1 - 23-Apr-2008 at 21:15
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 22:18
Originally posted by Sarmat12

 
The idea is proposed that Bulgars felt under the influence of Cumans and Pechenegs and swithced to Turkic before the 11thc entury. However, this hypo is too inconvincing. Pechenegs and Cumans never conquered Volga Bulgaria, never they were able to influence Volga Bulgarian sedentary population. On the contrary, they were influenced by Volga Bulgarians, a quite powerful Eastern European state of its time.
 
Yes, but Bulgars were under domination of Hunns, Avars and Turks, Volga Bulgars were also under Khazars quite a lot if I am not mistaken. BTW, as far as I know the major source of Khazar language being Turkic was from the expression said by certain Khazar Khan that language their language is close to Bulgar.  
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 22:44
Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan



I didn't understand your question. How exactly You try to evaluate them? In kilograms? In meters? Smile  If You want the list of our rulers with their ruling time, I can post it to You. But it is long. If You want to understand who of them are greater then another, I am afraid that this is very relatively and a question of personal opinion.
 
Sorry about the amiguity--yes, it is a rating of leaders, and yes, it is relative.  Essentially, I try to determine what direction the country (Bulgaria) was headed before their leadership and what direction the country was headed after their leadership.  For example, Asparukh took Bulgaria from nothing to a significant power.  Kardam took a very weak and disorganized country and solidified it into a significant power again.  I'm just trying to get a feel for who were the greatest leaders of Bulgaria by that standard (as it is the standard, with a little modification, that I am using as the groundwork for the Top 100 generals in history ranking).  Thanks!


O.K. I will give to You some examples.
1. Avitohol (a mythical ruler, ruling 153-453 or 165-465). He probably was leading the first great Bulgarian migration in Europa and established towns in the Northern Caucassus. My rating: 8
2. Irnik (probably 465-489; his mythical ruling is 465-615). He was a son of the great Hunnic King Atilla and Bulgarian princess. He took his mother's people and save them of anihilation. Probably his work are the castles in Scythia minor (today's Northern Dobruja in Romania) as also some of palisades. He was in peace with Bizantce (probably he has a "foederat" statut), but was fighting with the Gotts and Gepides. My rating: 8
3. Boris (489-504 ? Unknown to the official historical science. Known only from our old books). He fighted with Bizantce and defieted it, taking 32 castles in the province of Illiric. In his time was the first great settlement of Bulgarians in the Balkan peninsula. My rating: 9
4. Bulgar and Drong (two brothers rulling 504- 520 ? both). They fighted with Bizance and at first was defeated, but after that they defeated the Impere. My rating: 5-6
5. Sandilkh and Zabergan (two rullers of different parts of Bulgarian Empire - about 521-558). Zabergan was an enemy of Bizance, but Sandilkh stoped his attack tooking the horces of his army. Since 558 their rulings and acts are unknown, because of the arival of the Avars. My rating: 6-7
6. Kubrat/ Huvrat/ Kourt (615 as a child, 632-665). He pursued the Turks from the eastern pert of his lands and the Avars from western part. He was a friend of Bizantine emperor Iraclius and was living in Costantinople wor a while. He was also a Christian. Probably his most important act was that he made the Avarian Khaganat weak, deviding about the half of Avarian Khaganat ang population of course. With this he maybe saved Central Europa from Avarian dominance. He's grave is in the vilage of Malaya Pereshtchepina near to Poltava in today's Ukraina. My rating: 10
7. Espor-rig/ Ispor-rig/ Espere-rig/ Asparuh (668-699). He defeated painfuly all the Bizantinian army, but he didn't found a new kingdom, but enlarged his existing before kingdom. He died in defensive struggles with the Khazars at Dneper river, but stopped them. His grave is on the island of Hortitsa in modern town of Zaporojie, today's Ukraina. My rating:10
8. Tervel/ Terbal/ Terben (669-715, ussualy is given 718, but this is not thrue). He placed back to the Bizantinian throne the emperor Ustinianus II. In 715 he defeated totally the Arabian army which was sieged Constantinople and probably should take it, without the Bulgarian intervention. With this act tervel saved not only Bizance, but maybe all Europa. This is the first terrible defeat of ALL ARABIAN ARMY. I gues Tervel was killed in this battle. My rating:10
9. Tvirem, Sevar, Kormisosh, Vineh, Telets, Sabin, Umor, Totyu, Pagan, Sabin, Umor, Tele-rig (various kings rulling since 715 to 777). In this period Bulgaria was in crisis and survived very hard from the Bizantinian attacks. My rating: 1 to 5
10.Kardam (777-799 ?). He restored the Bulgarian power, but he did't suceed to take a dominance over Bizance, just a level pegging. My rating: 6
11.Kroum (799-814). He was probably the mightiest Bulgarian king from the "first" kingdom. He destroyed the eastern part of Avarian Khaganat and added it to the Bulgarian teritory. There is some (but very unclear) information that he stopped the Franks. He also defeated many times the Bizantinian army and conquered large teritories in the Balkan peninsula, including Adrianopolis (modern Edirne in Turkey). My rating: 9
12.Omortag/ Mortag/ Mortagon (814-832). this king was in "deep peace" with Bizance and started a scope buildings in Bulgaria. In 826-829 he was in conflict with German kingdom which instigated the Slavs from Pannonia to separate from Bulgaria. In 829 his patience bringed to an end and he dispached Bulgarian army which defeated the Slavs and their German alies. My rating: 10
13.Malamir (832-836). This king could not suceed to rull much time, but in his ruling time (together with kavkhan Isboul, because he was a child), he fighted with Bizance and pressed it strongly. My rating: 7
14.Persian (836-852). This king Fighted much with Bizance and took the Macedonia and the Egean sea coast. My rating: 8
15.Boris (852-889). This king is officially known as the Cristianisator of Bulgarian people, but actually he accepted the Bizantinian lyturgy, because the most of population in Bulgaria was already Christian, but Agnostic and Eretic. He ended his life as a monk by his own wish. My rating: 8
16.Vladimir-Hrasate (889-893). He tried to deny the Bizantinian lyturgy and probably the Christianity at whole, but he was detroned and blinded by his father Boris. My rating: 4
17.Simeon-Labas (893-927). This king created an empire much more stronger than Bizance fighting (and defeating) it all the time of his ruling. He had to fight with the coalition of Bizance, Serbia, Croatia and Ungarian tribes together and defeat them but he lost the most of Pannonia by the Ungarians. In the time of his ruling Bulgaria conquered all the teritory of Balkan peninsula except the classical Helada southern of Tessalia and the towns of Constantinople, Tesalonika and Dirahion (today's Duras in Albania). He also conquered Serbia. My rating: 9
18.Peter (927-970). This man was very peaceful and long-ruling. He was in "deep peace" with Bizance until 969, when the Bizantine emperor Joan Tsimishi desided to "finish with Bulgarian problem". Tsimishi organised an aliance with Russians, Ungarians and Serbians and really suceeded to destroy Bulgarian kingdom/empire, but only the eastern part. My rating: 7
19.Boris II and Roman (971-996). They was tooken prisoners in Constantinople until try to escape. Boris II was murdered on the border by Bulgarian border guards, who considered him as a spy. Roman survived and ruled for a while in Ochrid, but died soon (the Bizantinians made him eunuch). My rating: 2
20.Samuil (996-1014). This man was the ruler who saved western part of Bulgaria from Bizantinians. He fights with empire's army a lot of years and ussualy defeated it. At the end he was defeated by the emperor Basillius II and died when he saw his blinded army. My rating: 8
21.Gavril-Radomir and Ivan Vladislav (1014-1018). They ruled one after another but Bulgaria already was too weak and falled under the Bizantinian power. My rating: 5-6

The rating sistem I use is : maximum: 10, minimum: 1
Next time I will post to You the information about the kings from the second Bulgarian kingdom/empire, because the list is long, but now is too late. I hope it is usefull for You.
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 23:26
Kana-Subigi Omortag:
"Even a man to live good, he shell die. And let this who will be born later, when he see this writings, to remember that one who made it. And the name of this man who made it is Kana-Subigi Omortag."

Kana-Subigi Persian:
"The Bulgarians did a lot of kindness to the Christians (Bizantinians), but the Christians forgot about that. But God (!) see that."

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  Quote DSMyers1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Apr-2008 at 23:37
Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan

8. Tervel/ Terbal/ Terben (669-715, ussualy is given 718, but this is not thrue). He placed back to the Bizantinian throne the emperor Ustinianus II. In 715 he defeated totally the Arabian army which was sieged Constantinople and probably should take it, without the Bulgarian intervention. With this act tervel saved not only Bizance, but maybe all Europa. This is the first terrible defeat of ALL ARABIAN ARMY. I gues Tervel was killed in this battle. My rating:10


One question on this: how could he defeat the siege of Constantinople if he died in 715?  The siege was in 717-718.

Please look at the Wikipedia on that for a discussion and give your opinion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tervel .
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 17:54
Originally posted by DSMyers1

Originally posted by Balkh-Aryan

8. Tervel/ Terbal/ Terben (669-715, ussualy is given 718, but this is not thrue). He placed back to the Bizantinian throne the emperor Ustinianus II. In 715 he defeated totally the Arabian army which was sieged Constantinople and probably should take it, without the Bulgarian intervention. With this act tervel saved not only Bizance, but maybe all Europa. This is the first terrible defeat of ALL ARABIAN ARMY. I gues Tervel was killed in this battle. My rating:10


One question on this: how could he defeat the siege of Constantinople if he died in 715?  The siege was in 717-718.

Please look at the Wikipedia on that for a discussion and give your opinion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tervel .


So, it's my mistake. I wrote 715, without using any manuals, just by memory. But my personal opinion is the battle was finished of his son, because when I made the calculations of ruling time of our kings (it was about 8 years ago, so my mistake is easy to understand Confused), his ruling time should finish just at the time of the battle. Anyway, nothing sure.
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  Quote Balkh-Aryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2008 at 18:54
Sarmat, our very relative languages (Bulgarian and Russian) are also very different, believe me. The grammar is not "a hollow word", it is a way of thinking, it is a construction of thinking. Russian and other Slavic languages are synthetic, Bulgarian is analytic. Some examples:

Engl.: "I want to eat the gherkin."
Bulg.: "AZ iskam da izyam krastawicata."
Russ.: "YA hochu _siest ogurec."

Engl.: "I am going-up the stairway."
Bulg.: "(AZ se) kachvam (se) po stulbata."
Russ.: "YA podnimayus po lestnice."

Engl.: "HE gives ME his (the)car."
Bulg.: "TOI MI dade kolata si."
Russ.: "ON dal MNE svoyu mashinu."

I           Az        Ya
You      Ti         Tii
He        Toi       On
She      Tya      Ona
It          To        Ono
We       Nie       Mii
You       Vie       Vii
They     Te        Oni

As Indo-European languages our languages are very simmilar.
 In 11th and 12th century You received a lot of Bulgarian words as a result of Chritianisation of Kiev Russ, and in 15th century again, when Bulgaria was conquered by the Ottomans and our holly priests Kiprian and Grigori Camblak became archybishops of Moskow Russ and Great Lithuanian Principality, bringing with their self a lot of Bulgarian books.
We received a lot of Slavic words first at the time of Christianisation (still unexplained), and after that in the time of our national revival (in 18th - 19th century), when we was searching for our old books in Russia, as we knew they are there. But we re-wrote them (because the most of our old books was anihilated) in already russificated form.
So, we both have a lot of common words, as sometimes they are Slavic, sometimes - Bulgarian, but in the base our languages have different origin, and they still are too different, even when we use Slavic words. In grammar our language is not just different than the Russian, but completely contrary of it.

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