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From hunter-gatherers to farmers

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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: From hunter-gatherers to farmers
    Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 12:02

Anthropologists often believe that back when man was a nomadic hunter, he apparently lived a much more "comfortable" lifestyle than after he settled down and became a farmer or a city dweller. Although their numbers were few, most people had enough to feed on and the diet was rich in protein, fibre, and vitamins. To potect themselves from the cold they made coats and boots out of animal skin. Due to the lack of urban concentration and animal domestication, epidemic diseases were few and as a result, the mortality was lower than in historical times, and the life expectancy was higher.

After the Neolithic revolution, however, although the number of human population multiplied, the average human being was much more poorly-fed, poorly clothed, and vulnerable to diseases than his hunter-gatherer ancestors; some anthropologists believe that it was only as late as the 19th and 20th century that man has recovered the quality of life of the prehistoric level.
In other words, "civilization" actually brought a reduction in the quality of life on the individual level. 
 
Is there any evidence to back up this theory? Are most of the skeleons dug up in the Paelothic age really indicate that people lived on better nutrition and lived longer years?
 
Another issue I find intriguing was the matter of birth control. Hunter-gatherer societies apparently controlled their birth rate by keeping their numbers few. How did they manage that without the use of preservatives?
Did they refrain from practicing "full penetration"? Or did women make only have sex on their less fertile days of the month?
 
 
 
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  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 16:29

Well, disease would have to affect the bone in order to be reflected in the osteological record. The main and easiest diagnostic difference would be their dentition. Not that it is fool proof though... For example, mal nutrition causing enamel hypoplasias or any severe trauma for that matter, like disease.

 
In eaarly sedentary remains, I remember a lot of cavities. One poor man had decay all the way though his mandible. This you don't see in H-G remains (a lot of grinding though).
 
As far as birth control, I have no idea... Many practiced infanticide in some cultures...
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  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 16:42
I have to continue with- life conditions do affect sexual maturation in humans. As conditions get better, puberty comes earlier... and the earlier it comes the more children you can have.
 
Now, if conditions were worse in sedentary life we would expect a decrease in birth rate. Which is not the case, or so it may seem, with the accompanying population explosion...
 
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 08:35
Sedentary lifestyle and domestication of plants and animals made it possible to support higher population density. In other words, with agriculture supplemented by some gathering sedentary villages with a permanent population could be supported, i.e. Mesolithic and late Neolithic settlements in Catal Hayuk, Cayonu, Jericho to mention just a few.
What agriculture brought was a restricted range of food stuffs that people depended on. The hunter gatherer  had a larger variety of  resources:  if there was no meat available, then  some nuts would do; if there was no game in this area,  move on to the next etc.  also, there was a smaller population to support and no epidemics. Sedentary life in restricted quarters is not very hygienic and in case of crop failure you die to famine which would be impossible for a small band of say 50-200 hunters gatherers.
Settlement eventually also brought about social stratification, i.e classes in the Marxist sense, and the appearance of organized religion, i.e more folks to support out of your labor. Down the line chiefdoms and states appear to be closely succeeded by empires, i.e. organized warfare.
In western industrialized societies today we actually have less free time than hunters gatherers. Consider the typical housewife in the '60s: get up, make breakfast for everyone, cook, clean, pick kids from school. No wonder why vallium was so popular.


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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 08:41
By the way, birth rates were atrocious for most of our history untill modern medicine and this is not the case for everyone: look at statistics in 3rd world and infant mortality, it is still terrible. In the Middle ages in Europe, 6 out of 10 children died. Today, the rate is the same in some countries (yeah globalization).
also, in developed countriews that enjoy "safe" birth rates, economics weed off the many: in the US today birth rates is 0.5 MUCH LESS than Rome where they would loose 3-4 children but ultimately 5 would survive.

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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 08:45
Birth control? that;s a modern concern due to overpopulation. We didn't overpopulate untill recently. For most of history there were fewer people than needed. Disease, infant mortality and the effects of settled lifestyle (famines, epidemics) kept populations in check. 
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 11:42
Originally posted by konstantinius

Birth control? that;s a modern concern due to overpopulation. We didn't overpopulate untill recently. For most of history there were fewer people than needed. Disease, infant mortality and the effects of settled lifestyle (famines, epidemics) kept populations in check. 
 
When talking about Birth Control, I was referring to hunter-gatherer societies.
They apparently had a much lower infant mortality rate compared to the Neolithic and the historical age due to the lack of epidemics and better nutrition.
If their numbers were few, they had to have practiced some sort of birth control. Also, being constantly on the move, the women couldn't afford to be pregnant all the time.
 
 
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 12:00

If their numbers were few, they had to have practiced some sort of birth control. Also, being constantly on the move, the women couldn't afford to be pregnant all the time.


Not necessarily, in many H-G societies today women nurse children for up to 3 years. This keeps them from ovulating and thus they are not likely to get pregnant. Also you have to consider the rate of death from complications during childbirth, free time, lack of diseases and nutrition don't contribute to that. As well as predation from animals and other tribes could contribute to keeping the population down.

Also do not underestimate infanticide, heck in Medieval Europe a common practice was to leave an unwanted child out in the elements to die of exposure.
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  Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 13:43
It has been very interesting to review all of the assertions on "hunter-gatherers" and each post more or less brought up a chuckle over all the neo-Rousseaus bemoaning the lost Eden of the noble savage! Naturally, even Hollywood is revisiting the theme and releasing a real twisted version of the paleolithic: 10,000 BC--alas no Raquel Welch this go-round.
 
That is not to say that there are varied misconceptions involved despite the intrusion of contemporary exigencies (e.g. birth control) being thrust into the distant past. Instead, the topic is worthy of exploration and this brief course introduction merits expansion and discussion:
 
 
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 06-Mar-2008 at 21:27
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:23
I'm not sure we can estimate the child mortality in hunters-gatherers (h/g). Where is your information coming from? Generally the number of members depends on sustenance, i.e you can't have more people that can be supported by available resources. H/g did not reach great numbers because the lifestyle itself could not support great numbers. We are what we (can) eat, just like any other species. So, their numbers were few not because they had to practice birth control but because that was the number that could be supported by diet patterns.
How do you know that they had lower mortality rates than Neolithic people? Again, the fossil evidence is scarce ; let me know if you've come with any studies I'd  be very interested as the "Neolithic Revolution" is one of my interests.

PS human birth is notoriously hard because of the bigger size of our heads. While we've been selected for larger brain size, female pelvis size has remained essentially the same. This is probably because, though it causes trouble, the process of giving birth has not been detrimental to our species. Only then evolution would select for changes in female pelvic anatomy. However, though enough offspring survives, birth until very recently was a very tricky business.
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:38
H/g definitely had more "leisure" time than modern people and this is supported by ethnographies  on extant  h/g, i.e. Papua New Guinea. "Comfort" is a tricky term; how do we define comfort? We need an anthropological definition of comfort to see how it applies within the context of different cultures over time. The ancient Egyptians, i.e., were definetely more "comfortable" than h/g considering that they had more material culture, homes, irrigation, trade, etc. Yet they ate sand with their bread which gave them terrible dental problems which is not evident in h/g jaws who, of course, had other "discomforts" to content with.
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  Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 08:20
Originally posted by konstantinius

I'm not sure we can estimate the child mortality in hunters-gatherers (h/g). Where is your information coming from? Generally the number of members depends on sustenance, i.e you can't have more people that can be supported by available resources. H/g did not reach great numbers because the lifestyle itself could not support great numbers. We are what we (can) eat, just like any other species. So, their numbers were few not because they had to practice birth control but because that was the number that could be supported by diet patterns.
How do you know that they had lower mortality rates than Neolithic people? Again, the fossil evidence is scarce ; let me know if you've come with any studies I'd  be very interested as the "Neolithic Revolution" is one of my interests.

PS human birth is notoriously hard because of the bigger size of our heads. While we've been selected for larger brain size, female pelvis size has remained essentially the same. This is probably because, though it causes trouble, the process of giving birth has not been detrimental to our species. Only then evolution would select for changes in female pelvic anatomy. However, though enough offspring survives, birth until very recently was a very tricky business.
 
Check out these 2 articles in Wikipedia
 
Apart from these articles, many anthropological studies have revealed that there ocurred a sharp decline in "life-expectancy at birth" from the hunter-gatherer age to the Neolithic and Bronze age.
As we know, back in the pre-modern era, "life-expectancy" was less determined by the "maximum life span" as they also had old people among them, but more with the infant or youth mortality rate.
This reflected that the infant and youth mortality rate underwent a sharp increase when humans settled down to agriculture. Why? because of the domestication of animals, the poorer nutrition, and the higher urban concentrations brought about infectious diseases that could kill of strong and healthy people at a rate faster than any wild predator.
 
For example, in Spain, only 1 century ago the life expectancy at birth was around 30. It didn't mean that all Spaniards died at 30, but that out of 5 children born only 2 or 3 would surivive to reproductive age. Every woman would have to give birth at least 5 children to maintain the population stable, which was why many women spent the bulk of their fertile years pregnant.
 
Applying a bit of mathematics, if in a hunter-gatherer society women had as many children as in agricultural societies, and with the absence of infectious diseases, their numbers would simply explode. However, they maintained their numbers low, so they must also have had a substantially lower birth rate.
Also, living a nomadic society in which humans would constantly have to be on the move, being pregnant all the time proved a great hinderance.
 
The society of many primitive tribes in the jungles of America have matriachal societies, and the reason why women held such a higher status was because they controlled the birth rate and the numbers of their population.
 
 
 
 
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  Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 10:01
Calvo wrote:
 
"The society of many primitive tribes in the jungles of America have matriachal societies, and the reason why women held such a higher status was because they controlled the birth rate and the numbers of their population."
 
There is a reason why historians make a distinction by employing the Neolitihic Revolution as a descriptive. Furthermore, all of the suppositions being bandied back-and-forth move from the speculative to the realm of literary inventiveness. Shades of the Clan of the Cave Bear and the fantasies of Jean Auel! In dismissing some of the more outlandish suppositions, Calvo also muses on some untenable conclusions [female pelvic sizes, the hunter-gatherer in constant movement]. Everyone agrees that the transformative experience that gave rise to the New Stone Age was the domestication of plants and animals--and we should also keep in mind that such did not occur just in a single instance, but repeatedly in differing ecological zones. Further, it is also to be understood that these changes were not sudden but gradually experiential, that is the dramatic changes in ancient society could be the result of long steps in trial-and-error.
 
One might muse that the rise of agriculture and husbandry are economic realities in search of a theory!
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  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2008 at 13:56
Originally posted by konstantinius

H/g definitely had more "leisure" time than modern people and this is supported by ethnographies  on extant  h/g, i.e. Papua New Guinea. "Comfort" is a tricky term; how do we define comfort? We need an anthropological definition of comfort to see how it applies within the context of different cultures over time. The ancient Egyptians, i.e., were definetely more "comfortable" than h/g considering that they had more material culture, homes, irrigation, trade, etc. Yet they ate sand with their bread which gave them terrible dental problems which is not evident in h/g jaws who, of course, had other "discomforts" to content with.
 
Not to argue with you konstantinius but h/g also had problems with abrasives in their food. Many NA here used granitic manos and metates. I've seen teeth reduced to mere nubs...
 
Also, in regards to birth rate, in an agrarian culture, children = workers. The more children you can produce (and survive) the better your chances for survival. I agree with you too that we don't give enough credit to the 'comfort' of h/g cultures. Pre-contact  California never needed to adopt agriculture. They knew about it from neighbors, but the land was so plentiful and provided more than they needed, so why make the painful change?
 
 
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