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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spanish Armed Forces
    Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 17:11
Every other military seems to have their own thread, so Spain needs one too! LOL If anybody has any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.  That said, I may soon enter the Spanish Army.
 
To open discussion, here are a few images from the October 12th parade in Madrid.
 
First, some photographs of Spanish Centauro cavalry vehicles.
 
 
 
 
The Spanish BMR... soon to be replaced.
 
 
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 17:11


The ammunition carrier, based on the M113 chassis:

The M109, which needs a replacement

A Spanish M113 APC, being replaced by the Pizarro ICV.

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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 17:13


Detail of the glacis plate and side armor of the chassis.

My little Russia [his mother is Russia and his father (my uncle) is Spanish] cousin and I on the Leopard 2E.

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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 18:59
What conventional formations does the spanish army have?


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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2008 at 16:35
Conventional formations?  In regards to army units, it recently went through a transformation between 2005 and 2006, and dissambled the Brunete Mechanized Division in favor of brigades.  Wikipedia is vague, but generally up to date - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Army
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2008 at 04:32
The Spanish military has the highest rate of female soldiers of any EU nation, if I recall correctly. Something like 17%?
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jan-2008 at 15:15
I'm not sure, but the army is catering more to woman than it has before.  It should be noted that when Zapatero came to power in 2004 he replaced a fair amount of the male officer cadre with women.  Although a progressive move, it was done simultaneous to the Spanish withdrawal from Iraq in June 2005.  Two very smart moves and one very bad time (when Spain had been attacked by terrorists in 2004) - so, it was seen as an attack on the tradition of the Spanish Armed Forces (a right-wing establishment, for the most part).
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2008 at 10:25
Catalan, how did the Spanish equipment fare in Iraq?
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2008 at 15:28
I think that for the most part the heaviest armored fighting vehicle deployed to Iraq was the BMR, which deployed with the legion.  I don't think these partook in any major city fighting, except for the attack on the military base in Najaf in mid-2004.  Three BMRs took part in the fighting directly inside the base, although they were heavily reinforced with mercenary troops.  From experiences in Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan (especially the loss of a BMR in Lebanon to a mine) the Spanish government has been persuaded to allow funding of an army program to ultimately replace her entire fleet of BMRs and VAMTAC high mobility vehicles.  The latter have started to be replaced by a recent order for 40 LMVs, and ultimately we're looking at procuring somewhere less than 500 of these - this number might include a number of Israeli Golan vehicles.  The BMR replacement hasn't been chosen yet, and as far as I know the decision is between the Patria, ARTEC, VCBI, Pandur II, Boxer MRAV or MOWAG Pirahna V (which isn't even ready for production, yet).
 
This program is supposed to be finished by 2013, and is more or less urgent.  If Hezb'Allah, for example, was sustaining a general resistance against UNIFIL troops, Spain probably could not afford to lose three men per vehicle, like it lost in the attack last year.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2008 at 05:50
ok your looking for one of those 8 wheeler types, spoilt for choice at the movement. I would of thought Spain would do a locally made Pandur.  There is a Austrian/Spanish tracked vehicle already in service.

i think quite a few forces found their 'light armored' vehicles were a little too light when they entered a real fire zone in those parts of the world.

Edited by Leonidas - 24-Feb-2008 at 05:55
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2008 at 11:57
The ASCOD (Santa Barbara Sistemas/Steyr-Daimler-Puch/General Dynamics) Pizarro IVF

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN SPAIN
MANUFACTURED IN SPAIN
CREW 3 personnel
WEIGHT 26.3 Tonnes
TRANSPORT CAPACITY 7 men
LENGTH 6.83 m.
WIDTH 3,150 m.
HEIGHT 2.6 m.
MAXIMUM SPEED 70 Km./h
RANGE 500 Km.
WEAPONS 30 mm gun
7,62 mm machine gun
AMMUNITION 200 shots

Source


The infantry fighting vehicle is in service with the Spanish Army where it is called the Pizarro and with the Austrian Army where it is known as the Ulan.

An initial 123 Pizarro infantry fighting vehicles and 23 Command and Communications vehicles were ordered in 1996 and delivered to the Spanish Army by the end of 2002. A follow-on contract for 106 IFV's, five command post vehicles, 28 forward observer vehicles, eight recovery vehicles and one combat engineer vehicle was placed in January and signed in December 2003. Delivery of the second phase vehicles is planned for 20082013.

The second phase vehicles, Pizarro II, will have the same MTU Series 199 engine which was fitted on the Ulan, with a power output of 530kW.

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Edited by Leonidas - 25-Feb-2008 at 12:10
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 16:16
Originally posted by Leonidas

ok your looking for one of those 8 wheeler types, spoilt for choice at the movement. I would of thought Spain would do a locally made Pandur. 
 
Yes, this is one of the options - ideally, the vehicles will be manufactured in Spain, by Santa Brbara Sistemas (I'm not so sure this is a good idea, given the problems we've been having with finishing the final vehicles of the Leopard 2E series; production should have already been over by now). 
 
There is a Austrian/Spanish tracked vehicle already in service.
 
We're looking for a BMR replacement, specifically - wheeled and fast, mostly for peacekeeping operations (and probably lighter than the Centauro 8x8 already in service).

i think quite a few forces found their 'light armored' vehicles were a little too light when they entered a real fire zone in those parts of the world.
 
The problem with the BMR is that it has enough armor on the chassis and on the turret, if it's a turreted BMR (VEC), but it's not well protected against improvised explosive devices and mines - much like the American Stryker.  This is why Spain is committing to a crash program to procure hundreds of new mine-protected vehicles (already, we've procured 120 Lince multirole vehicles and 100 RG-31 Nyalas, with at least another 300 more to come).
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 16:19
Don't think I posted images of the Pizarro in the opening posts of this thread, so I'll post some images of the Pizarro in the military parade last year.
 
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 22:30
Our son was in a Combat Engineer Batallion that was part of the NATO IMF.  During the three years he was attached to that unit he was attached to a unit of Spanish Special Forces for 6 months.  He rates the Spanish military as highly as our own.  The only criticism he made was that their equipment was not as modern or cutting edge as ours.  It would seem from these photos  that they are taking steps to correct this.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 01:02
Originally posted by Constantine XI

The Spanish military has the highest rate of female soldiers of any EU nation, if I recall correctly. Something like 17%?


That's not surprising if the way Spanish women party and drink is anything to go by - they are more thana match for their male counterparts in that department...
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 04:17
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by Constantine XI

The Spanish military has the highest rate of female soldiers of any EU nation, if I recall correctly. Something like 17%?


That's not surprising if the way Spanish women party and drink is anything to go by - they are more thana match for their male counterparts in that department...
 
 
I seem to recall the Sarge saying something similarWink but don't quote me on that. Big%20smile
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 16:04
Pardon my language, but ...
 
A Lt. Colonel in the Spanish Army, transitioning into the Army Reserve, told me that in the Spanish Army women joined basically to have sex.  This, of course, is one of my incentives (the fact that they join to have sex - I willingly accept this reason and invite them to exercise themselves on me).
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 16:12
Originally posted by red clay

He rates the Spanish military as highly as our own.
 
Although I haven't gone through the armored infantry program just yet (I plan to after the two French girls in my flat leave), I think that it should be said that there is a noticeable difference between the training of different Spanish units.  The fact that these were special forces aside, there is a gap between the level of readiness between a normal infantry unit and a legionnairy or a parachute unit (besides the fact that the latter two also have more deployment experience, for these reasons).  I don't know about the equipment in terms of survivability currently issued to Spanish infantry, and most protection is probably only issued to units which are set to deploy abroad (normally, airborne infantry or legionnaires).
 
Spanish infantry were recently (early-2000s) issued the G36E assault rifle to replace the CETME mod. L.  The CETME was a good rifle, but the mod. L introduced a number of changes, including the replacement of the wooden rifle butt for a polymer composite rifle butt.  As expected, these early polymer rifle butts preformed poorly when brutally used during infantry techniques.  I have experience with the M16A4, and I can say similar things, although my M16A4 never accidently discharged (although I was afraid that it would).  When we were doing 5-second run drills, where you get up, run and then fall to your knees, using the rifle butt to cushion your landing, my ejection port cover kept opening as I slammed the rifle butt against the ground.  In any case, I think the G36E is a big improvement, but AFAIK the CETME is still the issued rifle during training (the Spanish Army was given about 60,000 G36Es and I don't see how this covers 88,000 personnel and all the rifles needed for training units).
 
From what I understand, in any case, Spanish basic training is different from U.S. basic training and the requirements are rediculous.  For example, for armored infantry I have to do 3 push-ups.  For the 3rd Mechanized Infantry Division in Ft. Benning, Georgia, I had to do 80% of the APFT test, or 56 push-ups minimum (basic training is 60%, so 42 push-ups); so the difference in physical readiness in clear.  But, the physical requirements get tougher once you get to your unit in the Spanish Army - dramatically tougher.  I'm going in as armored infantry, but ultimately I want to become an armor crewman on a Leopard 2E.
 
All this said, it's interesting to note that the Spanish Army received the best ratings out of all NATO units deployed to Kosovo.
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 16:33
Just because we're on the topic, I'll post this which I posted a while back on another forum:
 
Spains future soldier program (COMFUT) is a 1st generation program, which means that its an immediate modernization that will be take effect on the Spanish Army.  In the future, a COMFUT 2nd generation program might be started to standardize the Spanish soldier with the rest of NATO (in accordance with the future soldier programs in France and Italy, for example).  Therefore, all technology being looked at for COMFUT 1st generation is technology that is realistic in the present-day and can be fielded currently.  In essence, the theory is that COMFUT will make the infantryman a weapon system in the way he or she can acquire and kill.  The Spanish Ministry of Defense is not looking for some high tech battle suit, although new technologies will be integrated in order to increase the soldiers ability to acquire, accurately target, communicate, camouflage ones self, et cetera; the technology is at the service of the soldier, not vice versa.  COMFUT 1st generation is looking at developing a system that is the best balance between systems, features, performance and ergonomics.  The most important part is its modularity, which will allow upgrade programs in 2015, 2025, and so on and so forth therefore, COMFUT will be worthwhile for many decades to come.  Of course, the system will be interoperable with other European Union future soldier suits and the same with NATO.
The main contract has been given to EADS-CASA, but Indra will oversee much of the lethality program.  This includes sensors to increase the accuracy of the Spanish G-36E and to make it easier for the soldier to aim and fire accurately at the target.  Indra will also work on the communications system.  Everything will be processed as information and displayed in the helmet mounted display (HMD) on the soldiers helmet and on the weapons sight.  All communications will be designed to be completely wireless.
The future soldier will most likely be given a brand new tactical armored vest and load carrying equipment (probably pending on the development of new armor materials), a new helmet, signature reducing suit, new eye protection, knee/elbow protection, cold weather suit, NBC gear and plastic gloves.  Modularity will allow the suit to be changed based on the operating area of the soldier (i.e. Lebanon versus the Democratic Republic of the Congo).  The ballistic vest will have two basic levels of protection: against 9x19mm PB and .40 S&W and against shrapnel moving at 650m/sec, and then rigid protection which offers protection against 7.62x39mm steel-core ammunition.  The inserts/plates will be designed to decrease deformation of the plate to less than 40mm, to decrease trauma on the body of the target.  The helmet is just a polyethylene helmet (like Kevlar), with an inner casing weighing 1kg, and it will be given a helmet-mounted display.  In regards to signature reduction, the new suit can reduce the IR signature of the soldier by over 17%.
The interoperable hardware includes a PDA, and access to internet, modules, sensors, Bluetooth, UWB, et cetera.  The system includes an IFF system that can tell a soldier where nearby friendly units are, to avoid fratricide.  Intra and inter-squad level communications will be through MESH, which includes a one-hop addressing IP radio, with bandwidth sufficient for Rx/Tx (2Mbps) allowing for real-time voice communications.  Inter-squad communication is reserved for the squad leader and perhaps one of the fire team leaders. 
Spain plans to have 36 prototypes by 2009 and to start production by 2010.
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 22:23
Wow this is really awsome stuff. I love Spain, and I love learning about the modern Spanish military. Keep it up posting the good stuff!
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