Question about the Moors who ruled Iberia.

2) Did the Portugese/ Spanish slavetraders shipped these Moors as slaves to the new world?

Moor has two meaning. The first is just Muslim. Any person in Spain that was Muslim and dress in oriental fashion was called a Moor. It is funny but most Moors weren't foreigners but local Iberians.

Second, geographically the term Moor reffer to the coastal Berber people of the Maghreb, in the Mediterranean part of countries like Morroco, Algiers, Tunicia and Lybia. The typical Moor is the Berber like the Kabyle people. Think in Zidane and in Kaddafi and you got the idea.

If you question is about the race of the Moors, they weren't Black subsaharan Africans and not Tuaregs either. In Spanish at least, even today, the term Moor reffers to the "white" Berber, particularly the people from Morocco. Black Africans were never called Moor in Spain but simply Blacks. Moor (Moreno) also mean light brown in Spanish, but never Black.

Edited by pinguin - 07-Dec-2007 at 13:23

Originally posted by calvo However, in reality the word "Moor" had existed as far back as Roman times and referred to the people of Mauetania - the north African province; most of them were Berbers or Punics (Phoenecians).   The Arabs in the Roman period also existed and were the native Semetic peoples inhabitting the Middle East.   "Moor" and "Arab" were utterly distinct ethnicities back then. The emperor Septimus Severus was a "Moor", but in no way was he an "Arab".   In the 7th century, when the Arabs converted to Islam, their army swept all the way across North Africa and halted in the mountain range of northern Spain. Under their empire, many "Moors" became Arabicised, and so did any native Hispano-Romans. In Spain, because the Islamic army invaded by crossing the strait from North Africa, all Muslim became known as Moors, despite many, if not most of them were probably native Spaniards who had converted.

Originally posted by Reginmund Originally posted by pinguin If you question is about the race of the Moors, they weren't Black subsaharan Africans and not Tuaregs either. In Spanish at least, even today, the term Moor reffers to the "white" Berber, particularly the people from Morocco. Black Africans were never called Moor in Spain but simply Blacks. Moor (Moreno) also mean light brown in Spanish, but never Black.   Yes, but keep in mind that the Arabs brought not only Berbers with them, but also people from Negroid tribes, both as soldiers and slaves. It's not entirely fair to say the term Moor never included Negroes, even if they were just a fringe element in Al-Andalus.

No the Romans used it as a term for North African inhabitants of Morena, not for sub-Saharan black africans. As Reginmund and other have pointed out. 

Originally posted by asianprince Thanks for all the replies. Reginmund, pinguin and calvo clarified alot.   So basically the Romans use to refer Black- Africans as Moors, but the Spanish used this term to refer Muslims, Arabs, Berbers and the Blacks they brought along.   I got another question. Are the Berbers "white" or Black? I mean Zidane looks "white", but I do know some Algerians who are "dark/ brown skin".  Can someone post a pic of how Berbers look like? Because honestly, I cant distinguise Berbers from Arabs.   Also East-Africans are lighter than Sub-Saharan Africans and they have different features. Does this has to do with Arab colonization?   Cheers.

No matter what colour they were, they created an amazing civilisaztion in Spain, just visit Granada and you will see.

Oh, I know they were white. Moorish Spain caught my attention many years ago, when I was about 12 and played the El Cid campaign in Age of Empires!!!!

Originally posted by pinguin They weren't Nordics. Maghrebians are quite close in phenotype to Southern Spaniards and Italians. There have been interchange of people from Europe, the Middle East and the Maghreb since 4.000 years ago.�They are similar people.

Yes, to some extent, as there has been a great deal of contact across the Mediterranean. However, the Mediterranean also works as a barrier between people, and I wouldn't go as far as saying the southern Spanish and Italians are the same people as the North Africans biologically. Sure, some might be indistinguishable from the other, but you find certain phenotypes in Spain and Italy that are rarely found in North Africa, and vice versa. You will find characteristics among the North Africans that are similar to those of their neighbouring peoples in the south and east, Negroid and Semitic features that is, whereas in Spain and Italy you will find characteristics similar to that of their neighbours in the north, such as lighter hair and blue eyes. Semitic and Negroid features are however extremely rare in Italy and Spain, just as Nordic features are rare in North Africa. From my own experience (I've been to both Italy and Spain for extended periods) I'd say the further south you go in Italy and Spain the more people generally resemble North Africans (especially Sicily and Andalucia), whereas the further north you go the more they resemble Nordics. Italy is in my experience especially diverse; you find blondes, redheads and brunettetes as well as people with black hair.

Edited by Reginmund - 09-Dec-2007 at 17:23

Yes, people with light skin but dark hair are extremely hard to place. Even among the natives here in the far north you will find her type.

Originally posted by pinguin She is a "Morena" (or "Moorish" girl).

That's the etymology, but the way I understood it "morena" today is understood as a "dark girl", not "Moorish girl", even if that is the literal meaning.

Edited by Reginmund - 09-Dec-2007 at 17:34