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Who to vote for US president?
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Justinian View Drop Down
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who to vote for US president?
    Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 04:21
Okay, so I might actually vote for president this time.  I was curious if anyone out there could give me some good websites that actually tell you where the various candidates stand on various issues. 
 
I find that listening to debates and interviews is a complete waste of my time, considering no one ever says anything of value.  Its just downgrade the opponent, or not allow the candidate enough time to voice their opinion, or the candidate will go bla, bla, bla without saying anything important, or the candidate will side-step the question, or most irritating of all, the candidate will say what they plan to do but never actually explain how they are going to do it.Angry  So irritating.
 
Any and all help will be appreciated.Smile
 
I'll probably vote for some fringe candidate like Ron Paul or John Cox...
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 01:09
Here are a few. This is probably the more interesting of my offering, one that has a table setup  :
 
 
A possibly interesting site that needs further exploring:
 
 
 
And finally this one:
 
 
The only major down side to the last one, are the ads located in certain areas on each page. Hope this helps?


Edited by Panther - 17-Nov-2007 at 01:14
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Posts: 1042 		  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 01:50
Justinian i advise you to be extremely careful, since many so-called "electorial" "candidate" websites can be decieving. Make sure the site isnt crawling with biased propaganda coming from the left or right just to make the candidate look good or bad. In fact, most would agree that basing your vote on a website isnt the best idea.
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 02:01
Oh, it certainly does.  Many thanks Panther.Thumbs%20Up  Ron Paul looks better the more I learn about him.
 
That is sound advice Penelope.  I will try to heed it.Embarrassed  I am mainly in the preliminary stages at the moment, just trying to learn where the candidates stand on the issues through websites and what have you, then go into more detail and scrutinization from there.


Edited by Justinian - 17-Nov-2007 at 02:03
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 02:26
Sage advice Penelope. A very thoughtful caveat which is usally left out when politicans are soliciting themseleves on broadcast tv for our votes; Alot of propaganda value there. I guess with that in mind, i did see quite a few right-wing and left-wing sites that i intentionally tried to leave out for Justinian's benefit.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 17:26

Bring a lucky dice and in the process of secret ballet... you label all the candidates with numbers. Roll the dice, and vote for the candidate according to the number you rolled.

Voting apathy...
     
   
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malizai_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 14:03

Stay away from Anyone:

  • the mainstream media is pushing to the fore.
  • trying to please all the lobbies.
  • that is pointlessly jovial all the time, and smooching kids for the cameras all the time.
  • Who uses populist slogans.
  • +++

Vote for someone:

  •  On the basis of past achievements than future promises.
  •  For the candidate having shown integrity.
  •  For independence of thought and action.
  •  For the candidate having 'shown' common sense and sincerity.
  • +++
 
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Posts: 1515 		  Quote Gharanai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 18:17
Originally posted by malizai_

Vote for someone:

  •  On the basis of past achievements than future promises.
  •  For the candidate having shown integrity.
  •  For independence of thought and action.
  •  For the candidate having 'shown' common sense and sincerity.
  • +++
 
 
I totally agree with you dear malizai,
That's the best advice to be givin for someone who is looking forward to vote for a person who is going to represent him/her to the world and try to provide him/her with their requirements and needs.
 
The first line of your advice was what I followed when I voted for the first time in my life, I mean we had all these warlords, criminals and looter running for the first ever presidency election in  Afghanistan and promising that they will do this and that, and what I did was to just drop a vote to Mr. Karzai as he had a background much more clear and clean then the rest and to some degree today I think I didn't make a bad choice.
 
So you are right to see their past rather than what they will do in future... 


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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 20:30
How about this man?
 
 
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 20:35
We could do a lot worse,  and have.  Shame he wasn't born in the US, he might actually give Hillary and the others a run for the money.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Justinian View Drop Down
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 06:44
Thanks all for the advice.  Though I'll have to keep pekau's method in mind, that sounds fun.Wink
 
How do brits rate Tony Blair?  I was under the impression he was not thought real highly of because of his strong support for the US, bush and our military actions in Iraq and to a lesser extent in Afghanistan.
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 09:40
Justinian, we're screwed. The system is SERIOUSLY flawed to the point that it leaves no real choice. And there are no Gracchi ahead...personally, i'm voting for Ron Paul (but I'm not a registered Republican--this is one of my pet peeves about how the system works, primaries should be open to all registered voters, not just party members). He's the only candidate with a clear position against the Iraq war, albeit a Republican. But, regardless of who's elected I don't expect any real changes in the way Congress works ("revolving door", "soft" money, PAC's, lobbies), the level of corruption all the way down to local governments, the state of  education and health-care, and the general down-sizing needed in our society. If the Dems elect Obama they'll loose so Hillary will run with her avowed devotion to the pharmaceutical (wisely not attempting to repeat her husband's half-hearted welfare "revolution') and military-industrial complexes so I'm not seeing any real change anywhere. It's bleak.  

Edited by konstantinius - 19-Nov-2007 at 09:43
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 12:32
Originally posted by konstantinius

Justinian, we're screwed. The system is SERIOUSLY flawed to the point that it leaves no real choice. And there are no Gracchi ahead...
 
Indeed. A wise old man once pointed out to me that there is no real democracy in the US, as there are only two parties to choose from whose political programs are barely different at all, whereas in most European countries you can actually vote for vastly different models of government, as you have both far left, far right and moderate parties with their own distinct programs. You can of course start an alternative political party in the US should you wish, but all the corporate powers are behind either the Democrats or the Republicans and a party without comparable resources will be completely overshadowed during the electoral campaigns.
 
Still, it's a matter of either accepting this system or having no political influence at all.
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 12:45
I find Ron Paul an appealing candidate, he seems to appreciate the balance between interests and ethics. + He has 'not establishment' written all over him. + He has integrity.
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Posts: 1551 		  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 14:54
Originally posted by Reginmund

 
Still, it's a matter of either accepting this system or having no political influence at all.
 
 
I thought that Americans had a right to bear arms against their government?? haha.
 
But seriously, why should it be accepted.?? People are too conformist nowadays
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 19:04
There's NO other choice and we're too consumerist to have another revolution. Not to mention that I personally believe that any voice for real change would end up the way of JFK and MLK... 
" I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so."
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Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 19:27
Sadly Konstantinius I must agree with you.  I forever lost respect and confidence in the US government when a certain incident occured here at the state level.  A story broke that the entire state senate was getting drunk at the senate house in the middle of the day instead of, you know, governing.  Turns out it was true, witnesses and under cover cameras proved it quite sufficiently.  This happened one or two years ago now.  And of course the story was dead within a week.  Had to make sure we covered that little incident up.  Politicians, the only people who give lawyers a good name. 
 
Originally posted by Dolphin

But seriously, why should it be accepted.?? People are too conformist nowadays
Mainly because we have no choice.  For one thing people work and don't have the time and energy to do anything about it.  The other reason is the government would stop us, like when they arrested protestors on a large scale last summer who were protesting the war.  Plus, its not exactly 1776 anymore, I don't think shotguns will stop tanks and fighter jets. 
 
Originally posted by Dolphin

I thought that Americans had a right to bear arms against their government?? haha.
Damn right, a man has to be able to defend his country from the government right?  If only that was possible nowadays... 
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 20:58
Originally posted by Dolphin

I thought that Americans had a right to bear arms against their government?? haha.

But seriously, why should it be accepted.?? People are too conformist nowadays


As long as the people have their bread and their circus (read: junk food and TV), they won't revolt. Throw in an external threat, like communism or Islam, and you've got yourself a consolidated state. For the masses to consider revolution as an alternative, living standards must decrease significantly paired with gross social divides, like France or Russia prior to their revolutions.
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Posts: 1551 		  Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2007 at 22:54
Yeah, I understand. But maybe the fact that you live in a democracy that you can't change highlights what a shambles America really is..Just my opinion
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 00:41

I might go for Hillary... and watch how the scenario unfolds as I sit comfortably on a sofa in Canada.

     
   
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