Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Britain declining?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5678>
Poll Question: Is Britain declining?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
7 [21.21%]
5 [15.15%]
20 [60.61%]
1 [3.03%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Britain declining?
    Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 21:11
Originally posted by Panther

If we want to believe that Britain is declining, then we accept the reports at face value. If we do the research ourseleves, then we find most of what we see or read is greatly exaggerated to a remarkable degree! Maybe i am the only one here who feels this way? But i really feel sorry for the modern day news consumer.
 
Yeah god forbid the news be positive, I get the feeling it's an industry rule to depress the viewers as much as humanly possible. It wouldn't be much a of news flash or headline if it was something other than "End of world, next week" or "new deadly virus, WILL kill us all!!!".
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 20-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 818 		  Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 22:06
Heraclius, not that i am interested in blasting the press for no reason, in trying to do a particularly hard job in a field where they are not going to be agreed with 100% of the time and or... laughable when they claim partiality. But, i have yet too see them apply with the same gusto, the same principals they hold others up to, but not themselves. When was the last time anyone has seen them do an expos on themseleves? I have seen plenty of horribly reported fiascoes by them, that usally goes uncorrected +90% of the time. Not a very good way too earn public trust, i think!
 
(I hope this correction makes a little more sense, then my previous effort?) Embarrassed


Edited by Panther - 17-Nov-2007 at 01:30
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 23:45
the rise of china has been brilliant, it should be noted that an enriched china has been seen as a good thing in britain and not a threat, exports to china have doubled and cheap imports to britain have saved the average man a fortune.
 
with russia riseing its worth noting that not so long ago they had the second largest economy in the world, now that such a huge country has gone free market its not suprizing they are on the return,
 
as for us i think we have the capacity to overtake japan and germany in my lifetime, not so long ago we were behind france and have overtaken them.
 
look at history theres a club of about twelve nations we are one of the twelve, currently we are number five in my estimation.
 
any country outside the twelve has problems
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Nov-2007 at 23:49
for a country slightly smaller than oregon not bad
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of Númenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 01:00
Originally posted by Panther

Justinian, i thought i understood it to be about our modern day post-cold war world? I can't just  take what the BBC says at face value, or most other news orgs. for that matter! They continuously leave so much out of context, that it is up to the disadvantaged consumer too make up their own minds as to what the narrative was really all about in the first place.
 
If we want to believe that Britain is declining, then we accept the reports at face value. If we do the research ourseleves, then we find most of what we see or read is greatly exaggerated to a remarkable degree! Maybe i am the only one here who feels this way? But i really feel sorry for the modern day news consumer.
Now that I can certainly agree with.  It is out of the ordinary when the news does not have at least one homicide or accident where people are killed.  Always inspiring.  No, you are not alone.  The media is all about getting reaction, and making exciting claims etc.  They are legendary for misinterpreting things or simply reporting things incorrectly.  Mainly because of that I get all my international news from this website.Big%20smile  (well over 90% of it) 
 
Originally posted by longshanks31

for a country slightly smaller than oregon not bad
Indeed.  You really think britain could overtake Japan and Germany?  Wow, do many others think that also?  I would interject that Britain has an equal population with France, Germany is 20 million more and Japan is even higher than that.  Perhaps when you factor in the dominions? (is that still the accurate way to address countries like Canada, Australia?)


Edited by Justinian - 17-Nov-2007 at 01:07
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 01:06
Originally posted by Larus

So, apart from these nice laughs, what is our conclusion, is Britain declining, or not?Big%20smile
 
Britain was in relative decline around 1900 - 1910.  Many public figures and literary personages understood that at the time. 
 
It took years and several hundred thousand volunteer and Dominion troops to pacify South Africa; The Royal Navy had increasing difficulty keeping British commitments overseas in the face of naval build-ups by Germany, Russia (and even Japan and the US).  Some of this was in relation to available resources, and some was related to the expense of modern navies.  Britain felt the need to make a treaty with Japan to reduce her commitments in east Asia.
 
Britain was falling behind the US and Germany in industrial production and in capital formation.  The "Oil Age" pretty much put every power on an even footing in regard to this valuable and problematic resource.  At the turn of the 20th century, no one had a big lead on anyone else.  In a sense, the advent of big oil accentuated Britain's decline.
 
By the end of the First World War, Britain was a debtor nation, principally to the Dominions, to India and to the US.  The importance of Britain remained due to (1) the eclipse of Germany...until the 1930s, (2) the retreat of Soviet Russia from very much foreign involvement, and (3) the refusal of the US to understand and accept her realistic place among the powers.
 
Britain held up well overall 1939 to 1942, and deserves credit for standing against the Axis.  Britain also deserves credit for understanding that by the end of the second war she could not hold the position she had previously held.
 
As a major power, the UK is past her prime.  However, if one views the "Anglosphere" from the perspective of world presence,  resources, and even power, the combined resources of Britain, Anglo North America, Australia/NZ, and perhaps even India, make a powerful statement for a world-wide "British" presence that no other power can rival.
 
My opinion only.
 
    


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 17-Nov-2007 at 01:07
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 02:06
Originally posted by Justinian

Perhaps when you factor in the dominions? (is that still the accurate way to address countries like Canada, Australia?)
 
The word Dominion has largely been replaced by realm although they are both pretty acceptable Canada is still a Dominion and it hasn't been removed from it's constitution although again realm is more commonly used. The 16 nations which come under the rule of the Queen are more popularly known as Commonwealth realms, I guess to emphasise the equality between all of the nations of the Commonwealth.
 
 
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 02:14
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

[As a major power, the UK is past her prime.  However, if one views the "Anglosphere" from the perspective of world presence,  resources, and even power, the combined resources of Britain, Anglo North America, Australia/NZ, and perhaps even India, make a powerful statement for a world-wide "British" presence that no other power can rival.
 
My opinion only.
 
I think that is a key point often overlooked, the combined strength of the Commonwealth nations is enormous, the bonds they share benefits each and every member state. It's a fitting successor to the empire, were now every member is equal and voluntarily provide mutual support, aswell as maintaining a relationship between the old colonies and the mother country, which can only be a good thing. We have to much in common to be apart.
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of Númenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 02:26
Thanks for the clarification Heraclius.
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 09:33
justinian, we have to aim high, i think germany is a target well within our capabilities of surpassing, japan a real challenge.
 
if you talk of decline mainland europe has greater problems than us, we are actually be it by luck or judgement very well set up for the future.
 
we share a lot in commen with the japanese, i get the feeling japan has reached its zenith and although i do not predict or want a decline in japan, if the gap between us economy wise can not be bridged it can certainly be a lot closer.
 
research and development is the key to the future i think and luckily most of britains big companies have sussed this out and are investing heavily, at work taught skills and school leavers results are getting better and more prominant every year, another key factor.
small and medium businesses are getting a lot of government help and support, the acorns of today being the oak trees of tommorow.
 
As a nation we have and continue to invest heavily outside our country, a nice slice of revenue comes back to us from the very countries we are supposed to be worried about, and that kick back is increasing.
the way i see it as long as the seeds are planted and looked after there will be a harvest.
 
a lot of people bang on about us not being a super power but i see that as a bonus, being a super power brings with it a vast amount of baggage and we are free of it all.
 
on matters of mutual interest and in the spirit of our nations long and mutual friendship, britain will always come to the aid of america, like after 9/11 and not just with words but with deeds, the does give us a bit of baggage ie being so close to a super power, but if push came to shove and britain was in trouble, america is the only nato nation who would do anything to help, the door swings both ways and this is good.
 
its good becuase good relations is vital to good business, we are close with the usa, close with mainland europe via the EU, close to china via hong kong (a large range of british businesses remained after the handover)
 
Close to India via the commonwealth, and close to all english speaking nations,  and african nations of the commonwealth, its all good for business.
 
Apart from a bit of frostyness with russia and a couple of middle east countries we have ties everywhere.
 
Many projects are under way or starting or due to start to improve our lot, we have a big ten years ahead what with the olympics comeing closely followed by the commonwealth games two years later, followed by 27 state of the art new navy vessels under construction,
 
all i can say is the britain of today is much better than the britain i grew up in, and if thats not a good enough peice of evidence that we are improving rather than declining ie my lifes experience then there is not a
more i can add.
 
there may be new players on the horizon but where pinguin sees this as our peril and downfall we see oportunity.


Edited by longshanks31 - 17-Nov-2007 at 16:38
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Nov-2007 at 16:50
we know how to roll with change, two world wars, the transition from empire to commonwealth, and the shift to a globalized economy has taken its toll and resources but we are the other side of than now, the zoroaster said a blade is only as sharp an keen as the stones its sharpened on are hard.
 
prior to the empire we were very much ground, and bang we exploded onto the worlds surface awashing it with red,
 
the twentieth century saw us in turmoil and ground again, and pretty soon bang, we will rise further and further, not with an empire but via economics, the magnates and billionaires are the true empire builders today.


Edited by longshanks31 - 17-Nov-2007 at 17:20
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 15:50
i build my own empire as we speak, i belong to many organisations and i am a member of the conservative party, i know many many young brits far more talented and far more gifted than i, that are launching themselves into the world of business.
 
I once heard that a country is only as good as its finest minds, and if thats the case looking around the circle i know i feel very confident.
 
 
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 15:53
i am a grafter and a battler these young talents are naturals,
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 16:05
Originally posted by longshanks31

i am a grafter and a battler these young talents are naturals,
 
I'm not taking a stab at you here, just why do you always seem to make multiple posts with seemingly random statements?
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 16:16
im a random kind of guy and an idiot
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
longshanks31 View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jul-2007
Location: Great Britain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 572 		  Quote longshanks31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 16:24
it all ties in with the thread
long live the king of bhutan
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 16:38
Originally posted by longshanks31

im a random kind of guy and an idiot
 
That's good enough for me LOL
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
cola View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 22-Nov-2007
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0 		  Quote cola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 12:55
Well if this thread had a secret-motive to degrade the brits it has failed miserably by bringing forth the famed british humour, yet another admirable quality of the british

hats off to the brits!
Back to Top
pikeshot1600 View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 18:45
Originally posted by cola

Well if this thread had a secret-motive to degrade the brits it has failed miserably by bringing forth the famed british humour, yet another admirable quality of the british

hats off to the brits!
 
Rule Britania  Smile
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 22-Nov-2007 at 18:46
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2007 at 19:35
Wales and Scotland
These unnecessary appendages of England have existed for a number of years. They mainly consist of mountains and sheep. One is notable for the frequent copulation of its population with sheep, and the other is known for the cross-dressing habits of its men. At numerous points in history, to confuse the English, the Scots moved to Wales and vice versa, so now no one knows which is which, whom is whom and where is what.
 
Unnecessary appendages except when these dastards needed the sweat and blood of real men to fight their oft needless wars.  English chauvinism, even if in jest, is repulsive indeed.
 
 


Edited by Zagros - 22-Nov-2007 at 19:36
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5678>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.110 seconds.