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Pro's and Con's of bullpups

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  Quote Balaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pro's and Con's of bullpups
    Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 06:48
Now I know that bullpup design guns allow for the barrels to be shorter while keeping up the accuracy and monuverability, so is there any other pro's or con's to the bullpup design?
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snowybeagle View Drop Down
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 07:14
Con: the soldier's eyes and ears are at greater risk since the head is positioned nearer the firing (and discharge) mechanism.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 12:06
from what i have read, con: harder to train soldiers to use.

pro: exactly what you said, they are shorter and more compact which is ideal for being transported inside cramped compartments (vehicles and helicopters)

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 12:45
More complicated, more prone to jamming.
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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2007 at 03:44
Originally posted by Sparten

More complicated, more prone to jamming.
More complex mechanism, but I should think it won't be adopted at all if more proned to jamming.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2007 at 05:01

The more complex= more prone to jamming. More parts have to be in synch, more probability that something will go wrong.

 

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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 21:26
Originally posted by Sparten

The more complex= more prone to jamming. More parts have to be in synch, more probability that something will go wrong.
Theoretrically, yes.
However, what matters in practicality is whether the probability of jamming is considered significant enough as compared to conventional designs.
 
Janes has a review of SAR-21 which gave no indication of jamming during testing by the reviewer.
 
Unless the basic approach is not sound, there'd usually be improvements introduced to the model to minimise deficiencies.
 
Of course, like softwares, debugging one bug might introduce another ... LOL
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 05:52

Reviewer was not in the field.

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  Quote snowybeagle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2007 at 03:41
Originally posted by Sparten

Reviewer was not in the field.
Good point.  Shame on Janes for not ensuring this was covered before publishing his review.LOL
 
Nah, seriously, try Yahoo-ing or Googling for SAR-21 bullpup field tests ... they got reports and videos of it out there.
 
It's not claiming to be the greatest rifle in the world, but jamming is not one of the complaints of its shortcomings ...
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  Quote ChrisBoonzaier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2008 at 00:41
The French FAMAS is a byooooootiful weapon.

All the best
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2008 at 19:51
yeah but is it effective? i rather have a G3 for myself Wink

Edited by Temujin - 07-Jan-2008 at 19:51
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  Quote ChrisBoonzaier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 02:27
The G3 has a bigger bullet and if all fails you can use it as a club.

The size and weight of the FAMAS can really be appreciated after longer periods on operation, especially if you are in and out of APCs all day.

Best
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 17:30
Originally posted by snowybeagle

Con: the soldier's eyes and ears are at greater risk since the head is positioned nearer the firing (and discharge) mechanism.
 
I don't think this is really a problem; you can add a bress ejector, much like the M16.  Otherwise, the FAMAS solves this problem with forward ejection.
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 17:32
Originally posted by Temujin

yeah but is it effective? i rather have a G3 for myself Wink
 
I don't know about the G3, but Spanish soldiers who used the CETME mod. C have had good stories.  The CETME mod. L is another story - poor manufacturing with the polymer stock.  You can buy a CETME mod. C today for about 700; once I get my hunting license I plan to buy one.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 17:47
Originally posted by ChrisBoonzaier

The G3 has a bigger bullet and if all fails you can use it as a club.

The size and weight of the FAMAS can really be appreciated after longer periods on operation, especially if you are in and out of APCs all day.

Best
Chris


APCs and Urban warfare are different stories, i guess in those cases its the best assault rifle you can have at hand.
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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 18:21
Originally posted by Temujin

 
APCs and Urban warfare are different stories, i guess in those cases its the best assault rifle you can have at hand.
 
Similar requirements, actually.  The Spanish had a prototype CETME mod. R (the G3 is the German CETME) which was designed for mounted infantrymen in APCs which was a short CETME.  The project was never put into production, but the idea of requirements is there.  Chinese rifles issued to mounted soldiers are now shorter, as well.  In regards to urban combat, shorter rifles allow for better manuevering in buildings (I've never been to combat, but I completed basic training with the U.S. Army as infantry).  So, in both cases short rifles are preferred (which is why the U.S. Army has opted to arm its infantry with the M4 Carbine, and why Spain introduced the CETME mod. LC/carbine before the acceptance of the G36E).
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