Did Israel attack the US with Chertoff?

You heard on NPR that Lieberman put this resolution forth "at the exclusive urging of the Jewish-American Counicl?" If so could you tell me the date and estimated time as well as the NPR channel you heard it on so I can go and listen to the report for myself? You will definately see the sponsers openly discussing their support of the resolution especially if they are from Republican states like co-sponsor Sen Kyl (R-Arizona). Here is the press release from Sen. Kyl's office concerning the resolution http://kyl.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=284471. By the by they don't have to advertise it it's public record and anybody who wants to know can go look at it. I disagree the deterioration of US-Iran relations is not only to the long-term detriment of the US but also to all the nations of the world especially those in the Middle East.

I find it interesting that you, in your last post, did not comment at all about the press releases but seem to have merely gone right over them. The press releases clearly show the sponsors advertising the resolution.

Here is a newspaper article about the resolution in question, which by the way has nothing to do with the question at heart of this thread. http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--lieberman-iran0926sep26,0,6941186.story.


P.S. Again if the links don't work copy and paste them they should work then.

Edited by King John - 06-Oct-2007 at 17:16

Do you have documentation that Joe Lieberman "at the exclusive urging of the Jewish-American Council" put forth this resolution? Or is this conjecture?

I have found the press-release anouncing an Iran Resolution and it seems that in this amendment nothing is said about Israel but rather much is made of Iran funding "terrorist" (insurgent) organizations and killing US soldiers. I am no expert but that seems to me to be working in US interest and not Israeli. http://lieberman.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=284039 Here is a copy of the press-release regarding the designation of the Iranian Republican Guard as a terrorist organization. http://lieberman.senate.gov/newsroom/release.cfm?id=284225 Again there is no reference to Israel but only actions against US interests, namely US troops in Iraq. Also not that the resolution is not put forth by only Joe Lieberman but rather Sens. Kyl, Graham, Coleman, Alexander, Ensign, Thune and Corker.

If the links don't work just copy and paste them and they should work then.

Edited by King John - 02-Oct-2007 at 03:51

No. But I use my common sense. If indeed the J-A lobby fully supported the attack on Iraq, don't you think they would also espouse an attack on a much bigger enemy for Israel, Iran? If things become heated up between the US and Iran, thus pre-emptying a US attack on Iran, watch for their (J-A) actions and sayings.

Last time I checked the "Road Map to Peace", it was dotted with a fence. Our neo-con Pres and Admin have not taken a stance on it (the fence)

Radicalism on either side is condemnable. Israel cannot live with daily rocket attacks on its soil either. Hamas and Hezbollah have to pipe down (literally) otherwise they just feed the militant, extremist side within Israel.

The pull of the J-A lobby coincides with the pull of the industrial-military complex (but for different reasons) thus forming a formidable  (but not unsurmountable)  front.

Originally posted by King John All I'm saying Konstantinius is that Israels support in the US goes beyond the neo-cons and the Jewish American lobby. These ties go back way past 25 years. These ties started at the beginning of the cold war, when Israel was one of the only democracies in the area, it is only natural then for the US (the top democracy) to support her (Israel). With respect KJ,  US support was also shaped by the guilt this country bore in the post-WW II era of not having done enough early to prevent or alleviate the Holocaust. The ties were forged more under moralistic guilt and dilemmas than actual geo-political considerations. These conditions have been radically altered today  I also never stated that US foreign policy hasn't been shaped bu the J-A Lobby. I have however stated that there is no proof that Chertoff aided in any espionage conspiracy conducted by Israel. I am not arguing for the opposite. Nor do I personally have any evidence for that. If there were evidence he (hopefully) wouldn't still be in his position. Chertoff's connection to this "spy ring" is what the article is about. If the larger implications and associations concern you, wonderful, that's your perogative. However as a US citizen I am more concerned about the fleeting personal rights that we enjoy, these have nothing to do with the Jewish - American Lobby and more to do with the powerful wanting to keep power beyond that which the Constitution grants them. That is more of an afront to freedom than the Jewish-American Lobby is. I absolutely agree. Nor am i too concerned that my freedoms will be eroded by the J-A lobby. It is the neo-cons that I'm worried about. An attack on Iran, though, would both erode liberties even further AND be in accordance (and with the eulogies) with Israeli foreign policy. Again, it will not be the J-A lobby that will be the main factor in an attack on Iran; it will be the neo-cons that are running the goverment. But, with eroding popular support and increasing fiscal difficulties, they will grasp at ANY support they can get, especially one coming from such a powerful group. I would really like to see the major J-A organizations condemn any further aggression in the region and call instead for peacefull solutions to the crisis with respect to human rights and national sovereignty of others. this would really earn my respect and I would tip off my hat to them.   I respect your opinion, and think I have been respectful in my responses to your opinion, just as the reverse is true. I however respectfully disagree with your view of the situation. And to be quite honest I really don't care if you criticize Israel or the US relationship with Israel but don't blame the entire relationship on the Jewish Lobby, the situation is far more complicated than that response shows. I also agree but would like to add that IN RESPECT TO FOREIGN POLICY and as part of a wider overhaul of the system, our foreign policy in regards to Israel must come under review, i.e no more 'special" status for that country, especially if it endangers US interests in the area

King John, you can go ahead and believe whatever you like; that's why we live in a (still) free country where all opinions are (supposively) respected. The connections between the neo-cons that have been governing US foreign policy for the last 25 years and the Jewish-American lobby based in Washington DC are well documented and obvious to anyone with an open mind. I'm not going to argue about the technicalities of Chertoff's dual citizenship any longer. It is the larger implications and associations that concern me.   

Why is it especially outrageous when the second citizenship is Israeli? Because Israel is the only country on earth that has openly attacked the US in an act of war and went unpunished; because Israel is the biggest recipient of foreign aid ($ 3 billion a year) with absolutely no accountability of how this aid is used--as opposed to stringent measures that hold other countries accountable, i.e Colombia. Because there are tight connections between the neo-cons that masterminded the war in iraq and the Jewish lobby in the US. It is no secret that the Jewish lobby actively supported and pushed for the war in Iraq probably thinking --like the neo-cons--that an easy victory is ahead for US forces. Look at "Forward"--Major jewish lobby publication--around the time of the preparations of the attack on Iraq as well as the comments by Howard Kor (sp?), APAC's (sp?) director. EVERY major Jewish-American organization was pro-invasion. The war in Iraq would not have happened without the neo-cons; but the effort also found major support in one of the strongest lobbies in Washington, the Jewish-American lobby. The American political system, unfortunately, is wide open to influence from organized interests, not just APAC and the other Jewish-American organizations--something that in my opinion, if it continues unchecked will be detrimental to this "democracy" or whatever is left of it. But very few civilian organized groups outside the industrial-military complex have the ability to influence US foreign policy as much as the Jewish-American lobby does. This is not healthy and must be checked because the national interest of Israel does not necessarily correspond to that of the US. I do not intent to sound anti-Semitic so please do not ring the alarm bell of "antisemitism" that is so often used as soon as someone dares to criticize the US-Israeli connection and the undue influence that Israel wields on the foreign policy of this country (US); I just like to call things by their name. Is it accidental that 2 out of 3 neo-con "axis of evil members"--Syria and Iran--are Israel's # 1 enemies? In my opinion there's nothing that the US has to be afraid of at least from Syria who traditionally has contained herself in a regional role and is at odds with al-Qaeda as much as Musharraf's secular regime or Karzai's in Afghanistan. Wouldn't it be neat for Israel if the US attacked Iran after a mis-calculated and irrational move removed the only regional power that in effect contained Shiite Iran, Saddam's Sunni, secular regime in Iraq? How long is this country going to be fighting Israel's wars in the M. East? What does that do for the long-term interests of this Empire--not the Israeli--in the region and the world in general? Chertoff's Israeli citizenship and the sensitivity of his post is just another proof of the tightness of the relationship between neo-cons/Jewish lobby. Please don't tear the garments on your body in an effort to prove how many governmental officials hold dual citizenships other than Israeli; there's probably quite a few. I will refer you back to reading the entirety of this post.

Why is the US President required by the Constitution to be a US-born citizen? Probably because of the importance and sensitivity of the post. So dual citizenship is allowed to a certain extend when it comes to holding office, it is not universal. I am not discussing the oppinions of the writer of the article, but my own. I think that having a dual citizen at that post (Dept. of Homeland Security) is just outrageous ESPECIALLY when such citizenship is an Isreali one, REGARDLESS that, at that level, it is allowed by law (not at ALL levels, however, as I already mentioned). If you don't see anything wrong in the Americano-Israeli relations and the implications of those in the wider M. East area or the situation in Iraq, then I guess there's no point in continuing this discussion (or perhaps it is the subject of a different thread).

Originally posted by King John Originally posted by konstantinius I, as an American, am absolutely disgusted that no one less than the head of the country's so-called Homeland Security Dept. is allowed to have dual citizenship and an Israeli one at that. Actually this, the ability to hold dual citizenship in the US, has been discussed on this site before. It turns out that it is not illegal to hold dual citizenship. We're not discussing the illegality or not of dual citizenship in general. Don't digress. It is however not encouraged but this does not make the practice illegal. And by the way holding dual citizenship has nothing to do with his ability to do his job. No, not with the ability. It might affect the outcome, though. Can you prove that Chertoff's Israeli citizenship interferred with the responsibilities of his post? Can you prove that it doesn't? Sorry for the non-working links. For some reason this always happens to me when I post links on here. They should however work if you copy and paste them.

Originally posted by konstantinius I, as an American, am absolutely disgusted that no one less than the head of the country's so-called Homeland Security Dept. is allowed to have dual citizenship and an Israeli one at that.

Actually this, the ability to hold dual citizenship in the US, has been discussed on this site before. It turns out that it is not illegal to hold dual citizenship. It is however not encouraged but this does not make the practice illegal. And by the way holding dual citizenship has nothing to do with his ability to do his job. Can you prove that Chertoff's Israeli citizenship interferred with the responsibilities of his post?

Sorry for the non-working links. For some reason this always happens to me when I post links on here. They should however work if you copy and paste them.

I, as an American, am absolutely disgusted that no one less than the head of the country's so-called Homeland Security Dept. is allowed to have dual citizenship and an Israeli one at that. I consider it a major conflict of interest of the highest magnitude. I do not mean to sound anti-Semitic (but if I do, I could not care less) but I definitely oppose the role that the State of Israel is playing in the M. East and this country's (US) unabashed support of Israel in its foreign policy. It just makes all the "conspiracy theorists" sound so much more true in my opinion.