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Polish Winged Hussars?

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Poll Question: Were the Winged Hussars the best cavalry untis in the time period?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Polish Winged Hussars?
    Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 14:16

Originally posted by Zagros

"Winged" Hussars? Did they each have a Pegasus of their own?

 

that's their uniform....... their costume...... like why English had to wear Red while the France in Blue

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2005 at 13:44
Hmm. I believe that the sentence was ironic or sarcasmic or whatever you call it.
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  Quote Koriolan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 08:49

Helow Mosquito! Hussars have also "czekan" (kind of warhammers) to figt with other hawy troops. But remember tat it is not industrial age and during long campanies that equipement changed. For egzample baltes licke Kuszyn (1612) and Basia (1663) ( it could be some misteake in that dates) hussars fought whitheout lances, and made owerhelming charge with "koncerz" (wich is not exactly "stright sabre"). And for that reason i thing that most important was tactic and profesional charakter of this formation.

 

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  Quote Sarmata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2005 at 15:17
I always thought Kluszyn was fought with lances, and then Koncerz, due to the fact that during that battle Zolkiewski ordered more then one attack in order to break through the enemy lines, but when he did the enemy army immediately fell to a state of panic and the Poles carried off an impressive victory.
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 12:07
Originally posted by Temujin

mmh, but if you look at it, the Pancerni had a lance,
shield, curved sabre, pair of pistols, musket and even a Steppe bow, thats
much more than a Hussar carries personally with him (pair of pistols,
straight sabre, curved sabre and heavy lance)


Pancerni did not have the same training as Hussars did. Hussar unit could
strike the enemy with precision no other cavalry ever matched. These were
professionals and they trained together as a unit, which was not the case of
Pancerni units. There was also a difference in the use of shields by Pancerni.
What is interesting that Pancerni had more body protection than Hussars
did.
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 12:16
Originally posted by Hussar

I think Polish Hussars was best in world between 1514
(first battle of hussars in painting - 'battle of Orsza')- 168x (few years
latter than Vien battle). At the turn of 17 and 18 centuries polish hussaria
is turning tho downhill... reason ? Although by 18th century their
importance was diminished by the introduction of modern infantry
firearms and quick-firing artillery, the Polish hussars' tactics and
armament remained almost unchanged.
MY ENGLISH IS BAD, I KNOW ...



I dont think the decline has anything to do with infantry tactics and
equipment. They are quite primitive and don't threaten the cavalry, in the
open field, until French-Prussian War. The reason is economy. Polish
economy and wealth of nobility were based on agriculture. As prices for
grain declined, nobilty had no means of maintaining such an expensive
cavalry. French Cuirassiers will do quite well in the Napoleon's wars.



Edited by cavalry4ever
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  Quote Esquire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 23:48

Reading above, also long list of victories for Polish Hussaria, I am surprised at one major omission.
From Orsza (1514) up to Vienna (1683) is mentioned but not 1686 = The Liberation of Buda (Hungary's capital).
-Say Jan Sobieski to anyone in Hungary today, they will answer "liberated Buda from the Ottoman Empire"

Western history usually says it was the Habsburgs (in leadership) but the "Last Crusade", partly financed by the Pope, had 100,000  international soldiers. Jan Sobieski with a well trained army of 40,000 and 17,000 Hungarian hajdus who were first on the ramparts made up over half. The Habsburgs-Holy Roman Empire combined had less than Sobieski's modern army. Also the Habsburgs inexplicably halted without freeing the south section of Hungary (or even liberating Serbia?). The explanation of some historians - (the Habsburg feared) the Hungarians were more than willing to elect Sobieski as King! This would have been good for Poland and...... the best thing for Hungary after 150 years of occupation and war.

1686 a major-major event in European history and the begining of slow withdrawal for Ottoman Empire.
Sobieski -a key player- had infantry, hussars, everything.  I don't really know if Husaria was present ?



Edited by Esquire
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 10:14
TOPIC RENEWAL BEGINNING FROM HERE!
 
The conversation about Polish Hussars will continue here from the Polish Field Generals topic.
 
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Majkes

Originally posted by rider

Why was the Polish saber best in Europe? In the 16th century and 17th century, the best (or one of the best) swords were made in Sweden and I do not think they had sold many of their swords to Poland.

 
Swedish sabre was maybe good because of good stel but You wouldn't do with it such cuts like with Polish sabre. I would have difficulties to explain it but polish saber was what is the best in western and eastern sabre.
 
Now, let us please continue. Are the difficulties because of the language? You might try to explain those still.
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 11:27
Well, unfortunately we continued on prevois thread abou polish commanders but Mosquito more or less told what I was suppose to. I wanted to say that this sabre had special grip called "kciuk" which let its owner to use it with better comfort than other sabres.
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 11:48
Originally posted by Majkes

Well, unfortunately we continued on prevois thread abou polish commanders but Mosquito more or less told what I was suppose to. I wanted to say that this sabre had special grip called "kciuk" which let its owner to use it with better comfort than other sabres.
 
So far i know the "kciuk" (i think in english is "Thumb") was not for comfort but for power of cuts. It was allowing to cut with much bigger strenght. It was possible to cut off the arm or head with it.
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 12:07
Originally posted by Mosquito

Originally posted by Majkes

Well, unfortunately we continued on prevois thread abou polish commanders but Mosquito more or less told what I was suppose to. I wanted to say that this sabre had special grip called "kciuk" which let its owner to use it with better comfort than other sabres.
 
So far i know the "kciuk" (i think in english is "Thumb") was not for comfort but for power of cuts. It was allowing to cut with much bigger strenght. It was possible to cut off the arm or head with it.
 
Isn't that comfort for a warrior that He can cut off someone's head with his sabre?
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 13:10
Isn't head a little high to be cut? More like sliced?
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 15:45
doesnt matter, it was just an example that "thumb" in saber was highly increasing the slashing power.
This saber was inflicting really heavy slash wounds


Edited by Mosquito - 30-Jul-2006 at 15:45
"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 15:31
Koncerz was called Panzerstecher in germany (armour-piercer) and originated from Hungarians or Turks i think. it was not an entirely Polish wepaon.
 
here are Polish Koncerz in Hungarian (top) and Turkish style:
 
here is a Panzerstecher:
 
the weapon also existed in France and England under different names (Estoc & Tuck respectively)
 
Palasz (Pallasch in german) was even more common, it was standard heavy cavalry weapon for european heavy cavalry (Cuirassiers, Dragoons etc)
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  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 15:42
Originally posted by Temujin

Koncerz was called Panzerstecher in germany (armour-piercer) and originated from Hungarians or Turks i think. it was not an entirely Polish wepaon.
 
 
Nobody said it was polish weapon. I think none except Polish-Lithuanians used it in the period. We were discussing hussars sabre which was also based on eastern and western sabres butit was improved.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 16:29
Panzerstechter? Is it possible that the later name of 'Panzerzhrek' (or whatever it is spelled) comes from this? Seems so close.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Aug-2006 at 16:37
Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust are propagandistic names, they mean "tank-scare" and "tank-fist" respecitvely. bazookas today are still innoficially refered to as Panzerfaust. 
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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 03:29

Reading above, also long list of victories for Polish Hussaria, I am surprised at one major omission.
From Orsza (1514) up to Vienna (1683) is mentioned but not 1686 = The Liberation of Buda (Hungary's capital).
-Say Jan Sobieski to anyone in Hungary today, they will answer "liberated Buda from the Ottoman Empire"

No, libeartion of Buda was made by german-austrian army commanded by Charles of Lorraine.   Sobieski in that year have attacked Moldovia. 
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 03:52
Oh, it is so.
 
But did then the word 'Panzer' mean 'armour' in the beginning and later evolved into 'tank'?
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