War In Afghannistan

Everyone on this forum has the right for his speech, as do i, and as u pointed out, to argue for his/her view, and that is all i did. I think, perhaps, it's rather waste of time to notify eachother of these facts.

Anyhow, i agree there is a rather, in a way, an interesting situation on the borderlands. But i can assure u it's not the custom of whole of baluchi population, or the entire pakhtun population of pakistan, for crossing into afghanistan routinely. It is on the borderlands, where there are still significant family ties, and offcourse we have the traders. I do think certain elements misuse the situation (of easy passage), and the pakistani government has made clear there are going to be more restrictions.

The vast majority baluch and pakhtun population on the pakistani side, considers pakistan as their country, and they profoundly recognise it as well.

On the afghan side, whole another issue. I personally think, the people of afghanistan have been indoctrinated, sadly, because as i've pointed out earlier, the cause of enmity between pakistan and afghanistan, into considering pakistan not even in legal "existence". Well, it were the forefathers, who chose to form this new country, and it will the pakistanis who will decide forthemselves, explicitly the pakhtun, which way to head.

I don't think u can force 70% of total world pakhtun/pashtun population into some kind of coerced  colonisation, for more than 60 years now.

Wouldn't these people allready have had waged some dozens of independence wars, especially with support from Kabul for all this time, and allready gained independence?

THey did so, against the superpower (Russia), in less than a decade? didn't they? And to �ll the other powers the afghans defeated in their history, u guys boast off.

Tell me how come, they didn't do so against the pakistani state, which holds 70% of pakhtun population "captive" (afghan interpret).

Wild guess: they consider themselves  pakistanis, and don't want to join afghanistan/kabul?

=> They do, thoroughly, recognise pakistan, and take part actively in the pakistani society (politics, army, commerce)

Imo, large proportion of afghanistan pashtun does aswell. Only the highly educated, established Pashtun, who have alligned themselves with tajiks and other fars-zabaan, don't.

In the country where i live now, i have met, and i know, a lot of afghanis.  There is a big hazara representation here, also a lot of tajiks, and the smallest proportion would be that of pashtuns.

About the pashtuns: the very rare educated ones (in india), as u can predict, will hold a negative opinion against pakistan in any way.

But the pashtun, son of soils, from say: jalalabad, don't quite hold such views (characteristic "kabuli/tajik view"). They consider pakistan as their second homeland, fully recognise �nd prise it for it's roll of helping the afghans in it's most difficult times.

The hazaras u can split into 2 or even 3: heavily pro pakistan, the quetta-hazaras. Hazaras who fled afghanistan, most recently even don't have the "exagerated" view, imo, their countrymen tajiks hold. They are much more mild against pakistan, praise it for it's role (giving the hazara's asylum). Maybe because hazara's have old feud not with pashtun's only but also all the other groups in afghanistan, hazara's feel discriminated by all.

Bottom line, IMO, the afghan official "view" of pakistan doesn't hold that much ground.

p.s. And i am very much surprised, president musharraf hasn't kicked out complete karzai family out of quetta yet!

Pakistan is in political turmoil right now, u can say. This is because time for election is nearing, and Musharraf is feeling the heat. A lot of rumors about possible "deals' between different parties, a lot of pre-election campaign, it is only normal.

I don't see resulting it into civil war. I don't smell it in the air (as a pakistani), things have to go really really bad, would this have a slight chance of occurring. Right now totally impossible. (With the exception of some people with guns, running around hills, bordering afghanistan.)

Mostly pakistani's have supported Musharraf's 'strategic shift-moves'. Although it has met some opposition, mostly from right-wing extremist islamic parties, which are mostly supported in west-Pakistan.

But even the people supporting musharraf have cited serious concerns over military action in the tribal areas, against fellow pakistanis. American targeted bombings which resulted in high casualties, have worsened the situation more. All over Pakistan, people don't like military action against fellow pakistani's, be it extremist or not.

Even pakistani government understands this, and has continously repeated it's intention of not only military, but also political and economical engagement within the concerned areas. And i think, long-term wise it is smarter as well.

I think americans should do the same in afghanistan. Not only heavy bombings with lots of 'collettoral damage', little economic aid, no political engagement at all. Even president Karzai has spoken out about his willingness to engage politically with the 'moderate taliban', several times. This means he recognises taliban support within afghanistan's eastern provinces.

It would be unjust brushing off afghanistan's "political' problem(s), once again, as pakistan caused only.

The americans and their allies haven't been popular in the east, from the beginning, things have worsened only from then on. Resulting into more taliban support from local population. Use of force is prooving to be massively counterproductive, time to switch to other tactics.

Maybe an afghan friend, from east afghanistan, can tell more.

Force only, or more economic and political engagement?