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pekau
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Topic: Alocholism over E. Europe is caused by... Mongol?? Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 14:37 |
My biology teacher told me about a theory that when Mongolian hordes invaded Eastern Europe, the Mongolian genes mixed with the them (Primary due to rape or intermarriage) and brought Asian genes that caused Eastern European people to have weak resistance against alcoholic drinks. This may be the reason why there are so many Eastern Euopean people who have issues with alcoholic problems...
When I first heard of this, I thought it was odd... yet possible scenario. What do you think? And of course, it's just a theory.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 14:51 |
I don't know about other East Asians but Koreans have a reputation for taking their drinks very well.
I have a couple of Bulgarian friends at college and they're the most resistant to alcohol that I've seen so far too.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 15:39 |
Originally posted by pekau
My biology teacher told me about a theory that when Mongolian hordes invaded Eastern Europe, the Mongolian genes mixed with the them (Primary due to rape or intermarriage) and brought Asian genes that caused Eastern European people to have weak resistance against alcoholic drinks. This may be the reason why there are so many Eastern Euopean people who have issues with alcoholic problems...
When I first heard of this, I thought it was odd... yet possible scenario. What do you think? And of course, it's just a theory. |
To my experience, Russians are much more resistant to alcohol, compare to other Westerners. This theory would be true if Mongols brought "strong alcohol endurance gene".
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barbar
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Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 16:31 |
Pekau, AFAIK, Mongolians have very strong endurance to alcohol. Your teacher surely is wrong.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 19:18 |
Genghis' youngest son Tolui was made to promise only to drink a certain
number of goblets of alcohol per day by his worried brother. He got
around that by having enormous goblets especially made for his own
personal use, so he could drink as much as he pleased.
I was under the impression the Mongols drank a lot of alcohol made from the fermented milk of their yaks, horses and cattle.
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Posted: 18-Jun-2007 at 19:39 |
Originally posted by Gubook Janggoon
I have a couple of Bulgarian friends at college and they're the most resistant to alcohol that I've seen so far too.
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Haven't seen Bosnians yet then lol.
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 19-Jun-2007 at 05:40 |
It is a strange story in all respects, because the Alcohol intolereance of some Asian people does not cause easier or faster addiction, but faster drunkenness. People who are alcohol intolerant get drunk from a single cup, and so are extremely unlikely to become addicted to it, as they need so little to make them so sick...
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pekau
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Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 19:31 |
Alcoholic addiction then, not resistance.
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Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 19:54 |
based on the genetic reslt the effects og mongolian on slavs is ver small, so there is no genetic link between Vodka and Mongols
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BAWIR$AQ
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Posted: 22-Jun-2007 at 00:38 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
It is a strange story in all respects, because the Alcohol intolereance of some Asian people does not cause easier or faster addiction, but faster drunkenness. |
True, faster drunkenness is observed among both Mongols and Kazaks, direct descendants of the hordes of Genghis Khan.
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ProMongol
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Posted: 22-Jun-2007 at 10:30 |
AFAIK
Mongols get drunk in small amount of alcohol. Then they don't stop until they fall off.
It is like native americans.
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Afghanan
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Posted: 23-Jun-2007 at 21:22 |
I remember that article, here it is:
Alcoholism and Mongoloid Ancestry
Mongol genes leave Russians susceptible to alcoholism
By Jeremy Page / The Times of London
Moscow - Scientists researching cures for alcoholism and hangovers say that they have found a genetic link between Russians' traditional weakness for drink and the marauding Mongol armies of Genghis Khan.
As many as 50 per cent of Muscovites are estimated to have inherited Mongol genes that make them absorb more alcohol into the bloodstream and break it down at a slower rate than most Europeans, they say.
That means they get more drunk, have worse hangovers and are more likely to become addicted to alcohol, given Russia's taste for vodka, its harsh climate and the social and economic chaos after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
"The difference is huge - in reaction speed, memory, hand tremor and in how they recover," Vladimir Nuzhny of the health ministry's National Narcology Research Centre said. "On average, 50 per cent of people in Moscow have this Mongoloid gene. So this, we think, is part of the problem."
As part of the study, the scientists paid 12 volunteer students to drink 350 grams, about a third of a bottle, of vodka in an hour, and then monitored their behaviour.
"That's a lot by Western standards, but it's normal for Russia," Dr. Nuzhny told The Times. "At first they thought it was great because they were being paid to drink, but after a while they realized it was more like work."
The intoxicated students had to perform a series of tests, including answering questionnaires and playing rally-driving computer games, and were breathalysed at regular intervals. The scientists even measured their ability to stand up straight on a specially adapted machine.
After sleeping off the effects in a dormitory at the laboratory - which had a karaoke machine - the students were given a slap-up breakfast before doing more tests to measure their hangovers. The study showed that those with the Mongol genes absorbed 50 per cent more alcohol into the bloodstream at peak levels and metabolized it much more slowly than the other students.
"The way they get drunk is completely different. They are also more likely to feel aggressive or depressed," Dr. Nuzhny said. "They do not necessarily look Mongolian, but the gene that governs how they metabolize alcohol is Mongoloid."
The Mongols swept across Asia and Russia and into Europe in the 13th century and ruled Russia for two centuries. Intermarriage with the Slavs and other ethnic groups was common.
Scientists have long known that people of Mongol extraction, including Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, have an enzyme for metabolizing alcohol which is different from that of Caucasian Europeans.
Dr. Nuzhny claims that his study is the first to look at the effect of alcohol on Russians who have inherited Mongol genes. He says that the phenomenon can be explained partly by evolution. The nomadic Mongols, whose only indigenous form of alcohol was fermented mare's milk, evolved with a different enzyme from the settled Europeans with their long tradition of producing stronger grape and grain-based alcohol.
Dr. Nuzhny's research is partly funded by pharmaceutical companies trying to develop drugs to cure hangovers and alcoholism.
Russians drink about 15 litres of pure alcohol a head each year, one of the highest rates in the world, and by some estimates one in seven Russians are alcoholics. Alcohol is largely to blame for a fall in life expectancy to less than 59 since the fall of the Soviet Union.
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Balain d Ibelin
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Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 09:07 |
For me, it's absolutely not from the Mongols.
It's more likely since the Ancient Greece opened trades. In trades, to make the village headsmen or other trader became a bit drunken and can make them offer a bit stupid offers for slaves, the Greece traders use wine to make the other Trader or headsmen drunk. And also, the Ancient Greece trade not only with their locals, but also to East Europe (through black Sea) and even also West Europe (through Modern French Riviera).
Maybe your teacher is right, but I don't know who is right? Your teacher or me?
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 09:13 |
Originally posted by Balian d'Ibelin
For me, it's absolutely not from the Mongols.
It's more likely since the Ancient Greece opened trades. In
trades, to make the village headsmen or other trader became a bit
drunken and can make them offer a bit stupid offers for slaves, the
Greece traders use wine to make the other Trader or headsmen drunk. And
also, the Ancient Greece trade not only with their locals, but also to
East Europe (through black Sea) and even also West Europe (through
Modern French Riviera).
Maybe your teacher is right, but I don't know who is right? Your teacher or me? |
Uh, how would this make people less or more tolerant to alcohol?
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Reginmund
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Posted: 26-Jun-2007 at 07:26 |
Yeah, what is this bullsh*t? Seriously, guys.
First of all, concerning eastern Europe west of Russia, the Mongols only rode their army through this territory for a couple of years, hardly sufficient to leave any genetic imprint. Even so, the Poles are the ones who can't hold their drink, not the Russians. Now where's the logic in that? There's none.
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Decebal
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Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 13:17 |
Well, that's not really true, Reginmund. The Mongols founded several khanates in and around Russia, which had a huge influence on Russian history. Look up the Golden Horde and the khanates of Astrakhan, Kazan and Sibir. From their first incursions in the 1220s, the Mongols played a role in Russia until Ivan the Terrible shaked off the "Mongol Yoke" in the late 15th century. During this time, there was a fair bit of interbreeding, enough to lave a genetic footprint in Russia.
And who btw says the Poles don't have a Mongol element too? They controlled the Ukraine for 2 centuries, after the union with Lithuania, which territory historically had a significant Mongol and Turk population. Plus, there's also significant trade relations with Russia and the Mongol Khanates...
In my opinion, the issue has a larger cultural component than biological, but we can't discount this theory out of hand.
Edited by Decebal - 28-Jun-2007 at 13:20
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Anton
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Posted: 28-Jun-2007 at 13:44 |
Originally posted by Decebal
In my opinion, the issue has a larger cultural component than biological, but we can't discount this theory out of hand. |
Not only cultural. Mongoloid nations have specific isoforms of enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase. It is much more slow than the one in European nations. Which means that in mongoloid people alcohol concentration in the blood is high longer time after they drink.
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pekau
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Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 13:28 |
Originally posted by Decebal
In my opinion, the issue has a larger cultural component than biological, but we can't discount this theory out of hand.
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Cultural component? Care to explain that? I am not disagreeing, but I just can't think of one.
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think
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Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 03:05 |
Aboriginals are known for their drunkeness, an they have White mixed in. I think it has more to with Westerners being the bigger drinkers through out history. Not all Westerners though Southern Europeans are known for not being able to handle their alcohol also.
I doubt it has anything to do with any Mongol influence, but rather an old cultural one. I dunno but im guessing Vodka has been brewed for along time in Eastern Europe, an the effects of Vodka are fast. So perhaps drinking spirits for a long time hasnt boosted their drinking prowess unlike the beer Drinkers of the North-West.. I also belive Ireland by percent has the highest amount of Alcoholics.
Pekau, Do the Koreans an Japanese feel the effects of Alcohol like the rest of Asians.
Edited by think - 13-Jul-2007 at 03:07
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Timurleng
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Posted: 26-Jul-2007 at 04:34 |
Its true that people from East Europe and mongols drink a lot. This is a true statistic. But reason for that is everything else but not genetic. Usually northern people drink a lot. Most of the slavic people and mongols live in northern regions of eurasia where the climat is cold. In such wheather alcohol is even good for you.
Now i suggest you will ask me why dont german, or scandinavian people drink? I will answer u it's a lie they drink like alcoholics. Its just that in scandinavian states and germany the laws permitt usage of alcohol along young people who doesnt have the age. The mature westeners are workoholics so they dont have time for that drinking. I am from bulgaria and we have on black sea resorts where only scandinavians and germans take vacations. And i saw that they drink like wales.
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