WWII Blunders

I agree with Justinian and deadkenny in that without an attack on the Philippines, FDR would've had a tougher time getting the public to go to war with enthusiasm. However, The Japanese just saw alot of allied white guys and figured they had to attack all of them because they were all against them.

I have to agree with deadkenny on the pearl harbor issue.  The U.S. was incredibly isolationist in outlook.  Remember that FDR had to aid the british secretly for fear of provoking the population.  It's rather amusing to read of how he went about this, I almost laughed out loud when I came across the transportation of supplies to britain and the slow extension of the escorts farther and farther out to sea.  This was especially true for the midwest, Charles Lindbergh was the posterboy for the isolationists if I'm not mistaken.  Also the war against the japanese became almost similar to the eastern front.  The americans had the utmost empathy for the japanese AFTER pearl harbor.  My grandpa still talks of the japs and certainly doesn't like them, there are a lot of other veterans who still haven't forgiven the japanese for the war. 

Edited by Justinian - 02-Sep-2007 at 01:57

Deadkenny, I must disagree with the Pearl Harbor thing. It was not a strategic blunder at all, but probably the best decision the Japanese made in the entire war. The fact is that Pearl Harbor was a side show, even on Dec 7 1941, since the main effort (strategically) was the offensives in SE Asia, the purpose of the Pearl Harbor assualt was to knock the US PacFlt out of the battle in SE Asia, and in that it succeeded. The US would have gone to war over an attack in SE Asia, with or without Pearl Harbor.

So many 'blunders' in WWII, many made by the Allies early on, which gave the Axis a chance for victory and then many later on by the Axis, which cost them their 'chance'.  Some of the major 'blunders' that had a huge impact on the course and outcome of the war, first on the Allies' side:

1.  Stalin's pact with Hitler - almost let Germany win, whereas a 'united front' of Soviets, British and French could have limited the danger and damage done by the war.  Stalin was 'afraid' that the Allies were trying to arrange a war between Germany and the Soviet Union that they would remain out of.  So he turned around and did the same thing back to them.  The only 'problem' was that Germany was quickly and inexpensively victorious, and massively built up militarily, in large part due to the supplies that the Soviet Union was providing them with under the pact.

2.  Allies' Conduct of the Battle of France - Germany had some major advantages in terms of their military command, training, doctrine, equipment etc.  However, the Allies' plan in response to the Germans in 1940 was just about the worst possible thing they could have done, and directly resulted in a quick easy victory for Germany.

3.  Defense of the Soviet Union, 1941 -  The response of the Red Army to the invasion of 1941, not to mention the prior preparation - or lack thereof, was terrible and resulted in massive losses at the hands of a smaller invading force.  This almost gave the Germans a chance to win the war.

4.  Soviet Counterattacks Late Winter / Spring, 1942 - The initial winter counterattack by the Red Army was very effective and inflicted heavy losses on the Germans.  However, the Soviets expanded their counterattacks and tried to press them too far.  To compound that error they resumed massive counterattacks all along the front in spring, as soon as the mud had dried sufficiently.  The results were a disaster for the Red Army, and almost  gave the Germans another chance to win the war.

From the Axis side:

1.  German stop order at Dunkirk - effectively saved the BEF, allowing it to fight another day.  Given that the German strategy for the conduct of the war was to turn east as soon at the west had been dealt with, this failure to capture the BEF was even worse.  It meant that the Germans had to fight the Battle of Britain to again force Britain out of the war.  That failed as well and the Germans ended up with distraction in the Balkans and North Africa when they really needed to concentrate all their efforts on the eastern campaign if it was to be successful.

2.  Shortsighted conduct of the campaign in the east - Hitler was too overconfident that the Soviets would be 'easily' defeated. The great successes the Germans achieved in the opening stages of Barbarossa confirmed him in his opinion.  This had a number of consequences, from failing to fully 'mobilize' the resources of the Third Reich early enough, to an early campaign of deliberate brutality and extermination in the conquered lands of the Soviet Union.  A 'propaganda campaign' of 'liberation' from communism, the setting up of fascist puppet regimes and re-opening churchs and redistributing collectivized lands may have brought about the 'collapse' of the communist regime that Hitler expected.  Instead, the brutal conquerors approach actually 'forced' people back to support for the communist regime, in order to fight for their very survival.

3.  Stalingrad Campaign - there is some debate about going for the Caucasus at all.  However, Hitler believed that he needed the oil and depriving the Soviets of it would finish their effective resistance.  Whether or not a campaign in that direction was the best move, the historical campaign was very badly implemented and effectively finished the Germans.  They might have been better off if they had driven all the way to the shores of the Caspian Sea, so as to 'cut off' the Red Army forces in the Caucasus.  As it was, fighting for Stalingrad street by street while it was still being resupplied from across the Volga was an incredible blunder.

4.  Just about everything Italy tried to do militarily -  Starting with attacking France in the Alps when France had already been effectively defeated and getting nothing but a 'bloody nose'.  Attacking the British in Egypt and getting totally wiped out by a much smaller British force.  Invading Greece, and losing.  Sailing their warships out of port and getting sunk.  Keeping warships in port and getting sunk!  Trying to 'stab the Germans in the back' by making a deal with the Allies to occupy most of Italy and 'trap' the Germans, and instead getting most of their country occupied by the Germans.

5.  Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour - not really a blunder in a tactical sense, other than 'missing' the carriers.  However, a blunder in a strategic sense in that it provoked a war with a much more powerful nation in which the Japanese had no realistic plan to win.  The Japanese plan was to 'cripple' the US fleet, grab what they could while the grabbing was good and then hold onto it until the US gave up and agreed to let them keep what they had taken.  Chance of Japanese victory with that plan after Pearl Harbour - .0002%.

Would anyone disagree with me when i say: the Germans lost to the Soviets because their industrial output did not match Soviet output?

If I remember the allies were still using air attacks where they would come right over their own troops rather than perpendicular to them during D-day.  They ended up killing some of their own troops, including a rather high ranking general from what I remember reading.

Originally posted by Sparten Originally posted by Peteratwar Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing as are opinions.   By the way putting in green (but trained) troops to attack a position where a very attacking and CONFIDENT frame of mind is wanted is quite normal. Veteran troops tend to be much more wary! Until the get their first taste of fire that is.

Originally posted by Peteratwar Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing as are opinions.   By the way putting in green (but trained) troops to attack a position where a very attacking and CONFIDENT frame of mind is wanted is quite normal. Veteran troops tend to be much more wary!

Hindsight is of course a wonderful thing as are opinions.

Wow, there is quite a few to choose from.  Some of the more major ones in my estimate would be the entire eastern front for the germans, they give definition to the word winging it.  The Wehrmacht was improvising from the first week of the invasion until the end of the war.  Hitler and his decisions especially after 41'.  Operation Sea-lion (invasion of britain) including the battle of britain between the airforces of britain and germany.  Tank production and the nazi obsession with developing a million different variations and wanting to mass produce all of them, instead of mass producing say the panzer III or IV as Guderian would have liked.  Having anything to do with Mussolini and the italian military.  Japan attacking the U.S. at pearl harbor. 

Edited by Justinian - 08-Aug-2007 at 01:07