Finno-Ugrian impact on Russian ethnos

Y-hg N is generally recognized as a sign of Finnic ancestry. All modern Finnic nations have high percentage of N. It is obvious that they had it 1,000 years ago as well.

Ok, could be. But remember that the genetics doesn't tell the whole story. For example if 5% of Poles have that genetic marker N and it is recognized as Finnic that doesn't straightly mean that 5% Poles have finnic ancesters. It gives some information though and good information yes, but not the whole story. Am i right?

Original FUs were migrants in East Europe from East Asia. The modern FUs are themselves mostly indigenous East European people with only various degrees of FU admixture.

Finno-Ugrians came from East Asia?? As i know they came from near the Ural. Some new studies even says that FUs habitated much of Europe before the Indo-Europeans came here, but i doubt that quite much. I think FUs could have habitated much of Eastern Europe, especially European side of todays Russia, before Indo-european and other came here. Ofcourse the newcomers (Slavs) pushed the FUs to north and east, but probably there has been mixing too.

It does prove much. 1 document in Finnic per thousands of documents in Russian proves that the Finnic influence was minuscule.

Yes that is true. But the documents are mostly from 11th to 15th century and i'm talking about the time before that. Could it be that by that time the most of the finnic people in Novgorod had adobted the slavic language? And the finns probably where mostly lower class people, thus didn't know how to read or write. And probably those who could read and write could also speak the slavic language and probably used that for writing!

For example in Finland writing was introduced to us many centuries before the first writings in finnish occured. Before (and after) that every text was in Latin.


Well i hope i make any sence...

Originally posted by O-jah Yes that is true. But the documents are mostly from 11th to 15th century and i'm talking about the time before that. Could it be that by that time the most of the finnic people in Novgorod had adobted the slavic language? And the finns probably where mostly lower class people, thus didn't know how to read or write. And probably those who could read and write could also speak the slavic language and probably used that for writing! For example in Finland writing was introduced to us many centuries before the first writings in finnish occured. Before (and after) that every text was in Latin. Well i hope i make any sence...

Originally posted by Anton   The whole south of Ukraine was was inhabited by Antes, according to Jordanes and archeological data. They were part of Cherniahov's culture and most authors agree that they were Slav speaking people. Your attempts to make Ukrainians Turks is as ridiculous as attempts of some Ukranian historians to make Russians Finns.

Edited by Sarmat12 - 20-Jun-2007 at 13:10

Originally posted by Anton Originally posted by Sarmat12 This is true that the issue, got politicized by Ukrainian historians. Because, by using it, they true to prove that "Finnish" Muscovites i.e. modern Russians are inferior to "Arian" Ukrainians. BTW they write that the fact that Russians and Bulgarians have often common last names like: Ivanov, Petrov etc. is due to the fact that the Finnish population of Russia was baptized by the Orthodox Church, that used Old Church Slavonic i.e. old Bulgarian language. And thus Finnish Muscovites unlike the Ukrainians were given Bulgarian surnames.   Serbs were also baptized by old-charch slavonic but have Djorjevic, Petrovic etc. last names.

Edited by Sarmat12 - 20-Jun-2007 at 14:30

Originally posted by Sarmat12  Well, I don't want to ascribe anything. I just raised the discussion. Although, your attempts to negate this theory sometimes seem desperate to me. For example,  Dyakovo culture which you talked so much about is described as Finno-Ugrian everywhere.

Originally posted by Sarmat12   This is true that the issue, got politicized by Ukrainian historians. Because, by using it, they true to prove that "Finnish" Muscovites i.e. modern Russians are inferior to "Arian" Ukrainians. BTW they write that the fact that Russians and Bulgarians have often common last names like: Ivanov, Petrov etc. is due to the fact that the Finnish population of Russia was baptized by the Orthodox Church, that used Old Church Slavonic i.e. old Bulgarian language. And thus Finnish Muscovites unlike the Ukrainians were given Bulgarian surnames.

The hairstyle that you pointed was not only in Turkic tribes but Sarmats as well. The instrument is used everywhere in Europe including Russia (Dombra).  The ones that you pointed as Slavs in your figures are mostly Russians. Southern Slavs have totally different dressing style. Western slavs also differs from those you posted.

Originally posted by O-jah Ok, could be. But remember that the genetics doesn't tell the whole story. For example if 5% of Poles have that genetic marker N and it is recognized as Finnic that doesn't straightly mean that 5% Poles have finnic ancesters. It gives some information though and good information yes, but not the whole story. Am i right?

Originally posted by Anton The hairstyle that you pointed was not only in Turkic tribes but Sarmats as well.

Originally posted by TheDiplomat Well I was in Ukraine once, and it was the time I felt most proudful for being Turk throuout my life so far. I received much more attention than my German, English,Dutch, Hungarian friends