Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Who built the pyramids of the Canaries?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who built the pyramids of the Canaries?
    Posted: 30-May-2007 at 10:53


This is an interesting historical mystery: In the Canary islands, there are some stepped pyramids, that obviously predate the islands' discovery by the Europeans in the 15th century. However, the inhabitants of the islands, the Guanches, were rather backward at the tme of the conquest and could not have built these pyramids. Below is the wikipedia article. The other article goes a bit too much in the Atlantis/UFOs terrain for my liking, but it does have a lot of nice photos.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramids_of_Guimar

http://www.blather.net/blather/2006/08/the_pyramids_of_gmar_tenerife.html

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2007 at 19:06

I have the idea that the builders are the "primitive" inhabitants of the Islands. As far as I know, they came from the Maghreb.

Building megalytic monuments is in the reach of any tribal society of the past. In fact, in Easter Island, all the buildings of the platforms and moais were done for no more than 2.000 people, with quite basic tech. And megalytic monuments have been found all over the world, from the Olmec heads, to Stoneage.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
Back to Top
Sander View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator


Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2007 at 20:29
Intersting . Next time I visit the islands I ll take a look.
 
People often fall back. Beeing 'backward 'in the 1500's does not mean they were not more advanced before. And in old european records , natives  of encountered places were sometimes decribed as more backward than they were.
 
 
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-May-2007 at 21:20
The indigenous people called themselves the Auaritas. They supposedly arrived in two waves, the first around 5-6th cent. BCE  the second around the 2-3 cent. AD
Most historians tend to think they were from North Africa and were probably one of the Berber tribes.
There is however sufficient evidence to suggest at least casual habitation much earlier.  As early as the 1st century BCE Egyptians knew of them and called them the "Fortunate Islands."  Pliny and Ptolemy also mention them.
Whoever or whenever, someone on those Islands had an incredible feel for clay.  Their skill in pottery making was incredible, particularly their inventiveness as to making tools and other implements from clay.  They didn't use a potter's wheel and most tools were wood.  I haven't yet found any good information on firing techniques and kilns, but my guess is kilns were probably similar to Egyptian updraft.  


Edited by red clay - 30-May-2007 at 21:31
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Snake in the Grass-Banned

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2394
  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2007 at 07:26
Originally posted by Sander

Intersting . Next time I visit the islandsI ll take a look.


People often fall back. Beeing 'backward 'in the 1500's does not mean they were not more advanced before. And in old european records , natives of encountered places were sometimes decribedas more backward than they were.




I would think some technologies must have been lost. They seem to have arrived with sheep and pigs, and travelled to the islands from North Africa, which would have necessitated some fairly good naval technology for the period; yet they didn't seem to possess that any longer when "rediscovered".

In any case, the pyramids certainly aren't beyond stone age technology. It's interesting and surprising, but not unprecedented.
Back to Top
Spartakus View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
terörist

Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2007 at 11:20
They are not so far away from the North African cost. So i suppose there was some sort of immigration. There could have been trade as well. Let's not forgot that the Roman Empire had reached all these areas (Spain,Morocco) and traded with the British islands, which are also in the Atlantic.
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 17:34
Oh my gullible fellows LOL, the Pyramids of Gmar is another fraud don't doubt it, the serious academical research has concluded that the "pyramids" was made between 1854 and 1880 is not sure, when the expansion of the nopal in the islands; the canarians built these mountains of rocks when they took the stones of the non cultivated fields and grouped it on mountains in places not specially fertiles, these mountains ara called Majanos and spread along all the islands, here in Gran Canaria where i live there are many of they someone built by my family. In Tenerife the documents of the time don't register the Pyramid before that date, appear first when the terrain was divided by the owners in 1881. About the astronomical orientation, some say that the owner was a mason, other directly say that havn't astronomical orientation.
Well, it's only a way to take money of the tourist.
 
 
The world of the ancient natives is rich and fascinating i recommend to search about they.
 
 
Pd. And yes the romans was here, there is no clear evidence of they in land, but more than 30 vessels near the coast in Lanzarote, Gran Canaria and Tenerife, that spread from 150 BC to around 350 AC.


Edited by Ikki - 21-Sep-2007 at 17:39
Back to Top
Sander View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator


Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2007 at 19:22
Do you have references to studies?
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2007 at 22:40
 
 
I am not gullible, and neither are a number of well known archeologists and anthropologists who dispute ikki's commentary.  Chief among them was Thor Heyerdahl.
 
Despite many archaeological excavations on the pyramids, their age has never been determined.  They were definitely not built in the 20th century and more modern finds indicate they were certainly around in the mid 19th century.
What is virtually certain is that they were constructed with a purpose. They are filled with dirt and stones and the stones used to build them are not the stones found in farmers fields but lava rocks from further inland. They are complex structures with thousands and thousands of stones, all created in layers. Although they are of different sizes, they share a similar rectangular ground plan. Thor also found that the stones showed signs of being trimmed and shaped and were put into position with the flat side facing out.
He also proved their astronomical connotations. If you were able to climb to the top of the largest pyramid during the summer solstice, you could witness a double sunset as the sun sets behind a tall mountain peak, passes it, and then reappears and sets behind the next mountain. The pyramids all have stairs on the western side which you can climb up exactly as the sun does on the morning of the winter solstice.
Pliny mentions that around 600 bce the islands were uninhabited, yet had ruins of large complex structures.
 
 
These are not farmers "plow piles"-
 
 
                  
 
                   
 
                                      
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 25-Sep-2007 at 22:47
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Sander View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator


Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2007 at 04:37
^Thanks for info and pics. Seems an interesting mystery.
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 21:22
Salute good fellows, Sander, Red Clay, Tyrannos. I will answer to your questions shortly, explaining in few words the complex situation of this problem wich is similar to other pseudocientific questions as the bosnian pyramids.
 
Tyrannos said in another thread: "However, I never read about their Pyramids being fakes." Probably i don't explain it well, the pyramids exist but not are prehispanic buildings but a built from the XIX century. In fact, all the the cientific work about the pyramides have concluded this, the problem here are the media wich have expanded the pseudocientific view but not the response of the public cientific institutions. Wich are those sources, asked Sander? Well, we have basically:
 "El complejo de las morras de Chacona (Gmar, Tenerife): resultados del proyecto de investigacin" Authors: Jimnez Gmez, Mara Cruz y Navarro Mederos, Juan Francisco, in XII Coloquio de Historia Canario-Americana (1996), Cabildo Insular de Gran Canaria, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, 1998, Tomo I.
 
That is the work of the University of La Laguna, the public institution who have studied the history of the Canaries since decades, a work of trully archeologists after several years of investigation and archeological, oral and bibliographical research. The conclusion is obvious, the pyramids were built in the XIX century with economical purpose, to clean of rocks the fields, as many other "majanos-pyramids" of the islands like one nearly identycal in Icod de los Vinos in the north of the island, today destroyed, and another in La Palma wich is alive but without fame. In fact Red Clay these plow piles of peasants (very inteligent and laborious workers, capable of far more complex works) are very similar to anothers from Mauritius islands made because the same reasons (no, no alien work). The supporters of the Thor Heyerdahl's theory, who is not a serious author, only publish on esoteric and pseudocientific papers, the only article of they in a rigurous local publication talk about Atlantis and they give very poor quality information to the tourist and non specialists like for example that Pliny (in fact, I AC century not VI BC) talk about the pyramids (talk about some structures in La Palma and Gran Canaria not Tenerife) and worst things, all with the complicity of turist and transport bussines and in certain part, wich is pathetic, with the political institutions.
 
Apart from this work we have a lot of articles of local archeologists and the work "Las Pirmides de Gmar, mito y realidad" Authors: Antonio Aparicio Juan y Csar Esteban Lpez, by Centro de la Cultura popular Canaria, 2005. 
Wich talk about the astronomycal orientation and resume the debate about the pyramids, a book wich i recom; other authors say that there is not astronomycal orientation.
 
Some day i will do an article for the forum magazine explaining the dettails.
 
regards


Edited by Ikki - 11-Oct-2007 at 21:25
Back to Top
Sander View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator


Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 01:47
If true, you are spoiling a touristic attraction Wink ( not that canaries lack tourists  LOL )
 
Thnx for references,. Your sources are all in  spanish  but lets say its  known now  there are bonafide  studies on this  ( surely not meaning they are necessarely right in the conclusions ofcourse).
 
 
 
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 11:33
That is a huge problem i admit, opposite to the scientific research, the pseudocientific have made a huge effort for expand their idea, with the thematic park orientated to tourists around the world, with Ferco wich is their "archeological" group writing in english, the Heyerdahl's theory is far more known than the universitarian opinion. All in all, this is a problem here in Canary Islands between spanish speakers becaus another thing should be said: the newspaper aren't interested in boring explanations about the history of the islands and they don't publish, or publish in the page...58 in a small article the conclusion of the spanish scientifics; the opposite anything related to the pyramids from the side of the aliens, atlantis and egyptian voyagers automatically are published, a fact wich i think are related to the power of the corporations implicated in the problem.
 
"If true, you are spoiling a touristic attraction" Sure my friend, you have touched the correct point of the problem Tongue
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 14:50
Ikki, I know very well when Pliny the Elder lived.  Pliny, in the 1st. cent. AD mentions the Islands being uninhabited, but with ruins of large structures in the 6th century BCE.  He [Pliny] was reporting on the voyages of Hanno the Navigator, which took place in the mid 600's bce.
Herodotus also mentions the same thing but ascribes a much earlier date to them.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 18:55

Dear red clay, Pliny don't say anything about any date about the buildings, only that there were ruins in Canaria and a temple made of one stone(supposed Gran Canaria and La Palma) and he said this based on the information provided by a mauritanian expedition of the 40 BC, there is no mention to trully arrivals to the islands before that date, non Herodoto, non in the accounts about Hanno (who talk about Hesperides and other islands, but in an impossible context, probably Guinea), only vague information about islands in the ocean (there are many roman ceramic things someone of the II century BC in several islands, found near into the sea few meters near the coast, but that another story) . The first mention of real voyages to the islands is the plinian text, wich is this:

 
English: (i dislake this translation)
 

'Some people think that beyond the islands of Mauretania lie the Isles of Bliss, and also some others of which Sebosus before mentioned gives not only the number but also the distances, reporting that Junonia is 750 miles from Cadiz, and that Pluvialia and Capraria are the same distance west from Junonia; that in Pluvialia there is no water except what is supplied by rain; that the Isles of Bliss are 250 miles WNW from these, to the left hand of Mauretania (Morocco), and that one is called Invallis from its undulating surface and the other Planasia from its conformation, Invallis measuring 300 miles round; and that on it trees grow to a height of 140 ft. About the Isles of Bliss Juba has ascertained the following facts; they lie in a southwesterly direction, at a distance of 625 miles sail from the Purple Islands, provided that a course be laid north of due west for 250 miles, and then east for 375 miles; that the first island reached is called Ombrios, and there are no traces of buildings upon it, but it has a pool surrounded by mountains, and trees resembling the giant fennel, from which water is extracted, the black ones giving a bitter fluid and those of brighther colour a juice that is agreeable to drink; that the second island is called Junonia, and that there is a small temple on it built of only a single stone; and that in its neighbourhood there is a smaller island of the same name, and then Capraria, which swarms with large lizards; and that in view from these islands is Ninguaria, so named from its perpetual snow, and wrapped in cloud; and next to it one named Canaria, from its multitude of dogs of a huge size (two of these were brought back for Juba). He said that in this island there are traces of buildings; that while they all have an abundant supply of fruit and of birds of every kind, Canaria also abounds in palm-groves bearing dates and in conifers; that in addition to this there is a large supply of honey, and also papryus grows in the rivers, and sheat-fish; and that these islands are plagued with the rotting carcasses of monstrous creatures that are constantly being cast ashore by the sea.'

 
Latin:
 

Sunt qui ultra eas Fortunatas putent esse quasdamque alias, quo in numero idem Sebosus etiam spatia conplexus Iunoniam abesse a Gadibus p. tradit, ab ea tantundem ad occasum versus Pluvialiam Caprariamque; in Pluvialia non esse aquam nisi ex imbri. ab iis Fortunatas contra laevam Mauretaniae in VIII horam solis; vocari Invallem a convexitate et Planasiam a specie, Invallis circuitu p.; arborum ibi proceritatem ad CXL pedes adulescere. 

Iuba de Fortunatis ita inquisivit: sub meridiem quoque positas esse prope occasum, a Purpurariis p., sic ut supra occasum navigetur, dein per ortus petatur. primam vocari Ombrion, nullis aedificiorum vestigiis; habere in montibus stagnum, arbores similes ferulae, ex quibus aqua exprimatur, e nigris amara, ex candidioribus potui iucunda. 

alteram insulam Iunoniam appellari; in ea aediculam esse tantum lapide exstructam. ab ea in vicino eodem nomine minorem, deinde Caprariam, lacertis grandibus refertam. in conspectu earum esse Ninguariam, quae hoc nomen acceperit a perpetua nive, nebulosam. 

proximam ei Canariam vocari a multitudine canum ingentis magnitudinis -- ex quibus perducti sunt Iubae duo --; apparere ibi vestigia aedificiorum. cum omnes autem copia pomorum et avium omnis generis abundent, hanc et palmetis caryotas ferentibus ac nuce pinea abundare; esse copiam et mellis, papyrum quoque et siluros in amnibus gigni. infestari eas belvis, quae expellantur adsidue, putrescentibus.

 
 
All in all, most of the authors that i have read say the information is so confuse that should be a work based on several accounts, or on very corrupted information. All this far from anything related to the pyramids.
 
regards
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 19:55
Ikki, I don't know where that description came from, but it certainly wasn't Pliny who wrote it.
 
Pliny certainly did mention the hanno voyages, Hanno gave a detailed discription of the buildings on the islands. Herodotus was only one of several giving a earlier date for the ruins.
Egyptian sailors called the islands the "fortunate Islands".
 
 
A COMMON SENSE VIEW-
 
From someone who has actually done stone working.
 
The population of the Canary Islands until the late 19th century was less than 200,000.  For all of the islands.
Until the 11th cent. the population was less than 50,000.  [estimate based on past archeological studies, listed in Wiki.]
To have constructed these structures in the manner they were done, would have required the energies of 2/3rds of the population for decades.
The population wasn't large enough to have sustained this kind of a building effort.
There wasn't any motivation strong enough to have been able to organize that kind of effort.  Clearing the land for farming wouldn't have done it, as there would have been little manpower or time left for farming.
If in fact there had been an organized effort of this scale during the historical period there would be no question as to who built them or when.  The local histories would have chronicled anything as all encompassing as that would have been.
 
 
 
   
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
Ikki View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Guanarteme

Joined: 31-Dec-2004
Location: Spain
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1378
  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2008 at 16:18
Originally posted by red clay

Ikki, I don't know where that description came from, but it certainly wasn't Pliny who wrote it.
 
Pliny certainly did mention the hanno voyages, Hanno gave a detailed discription of the buildings on the islands. Herodotus was only one of several giving a earlier date for the ruins.
Egyptian sailors called the islands the "fortunate Islands".
 
 
A COMMON SENSE VIEW-
 
From someone who has actually done stone working.
 
The population of the Canary Islands until the late 19th century was less than 200,000.  For all of the islands.
Until the 11th cent. the population was less than 50,000.  [estimate based on past archeological studies, listed in Wiki.]
To have constructed these structures in the manner they were done, would have required the energies of 2/3rds of the population for decades.
The population wasn't large enough to have sustained this kind of a building effort.
There wasn't any motivation strong enough to have been able to organize that kind of effort.  Clearing the land for farming wouldn't have done it, as there would have been little manpower or time left for farming.
If in fact there had been an organized effort of this scale during the historical period there would be no question as to who built them or when.  The local histories would have chronicled anything as all encompassing as that would have been.
 
 
 
   
 
How many time since i stop talking here unfortunatelly, i have had a lot of work sorry guys.
 
Red Clay, some points here. Non Hanno, non Necao, no Herodoto talk about these islands:
 
 
The first to talk about real islands are the clasics like Diodorus, Plutarcus, Salustius but the first documented voyage to specifically Canary Islands without doubt is Pliny. The name Fortunatae Islands was put by romans following the greek idea of Makaron Nesoi in the ocean.
 
The stimation of 50000 persons in the islands around XI century is totally impossible, we only have dates about the native population for the XIV and XV centuriess, the stimations range between 20000 to 100000 in that age.
 
To have constructed these structures in the manner they were done, would have required the energies of 2/3rds of the population for decades.
The population wasn't large enough to have sustained this kind of a building effort.
There wasn't any motivation strong enough to have been able to organize that kind of effort.  Clearing the land for farming wouldn't have done it, as there would have been little manpower or time left for farming.
 
Heavilly wrong. These structures are simple and small in comparation with the great buildings and infrastructure works of the canarians around XIX century, don't forget that by this time the technological level was far greater than before and equal than peninsular Spain or Latin America, examples of far more complex structures, a lot: churchs, cathedrals, fortifications, roads, dikes, aqueducts, canals, all this far more complicated than the pyramids.
 
Look the Castle of San Juan in Santa Cruz de Tenerife
 
 
And the Cathedral of La Laguna
 
 
 
 
The motivation is clear: clean the terrain from stones for farm, like they do before and after, is not a question about if they wanted or they don't wanted wast time, they needed do the work yes or yes. Look this structures close to my town in Gran Canaria, is a complex of five "majanos" the greatest have 4 metres diametre and near 3 metres tall, the heavy roks in the base smallest in the top and the inner with a spiral starcaise around:
 
 
Another one smallest, three metres diametre and two tall:
 
 
 
 
If in fact there had been an organized effort of this scale during the historical period there would be no question as to who built them or when.  The local histories would have chronicled anything as all encompassing as that would have been.
 
In fact, they did, not only there are lot of well documented works in this type of structures by locals notaries and owners but long descriptions from foreingers as Olivia Stone and english women who visited Tenerife around 1880 and wrote about these works.
 
regards


Edited by Ikki - 23-Feb-2008 at 16:24
Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Snake in the Grass-Banned

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2394
  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2008 at 23:08
Originally posted by red clay

The population of the Canary Islands until the late 19th century was less than 200,000.  For all of the islands.
Until the 11th cent. the population was less than 50,000.  [estimate based on past archeological studies, listed in Wiki.]
To have constructed these structures in the manner they were done, would have required the energies of 2/3rds of the population for decades.
The population wasn't large enough to have sustained this kind of a building effort.
There wasn't any motivation strong enough to have been able to organize that kind of effort.  Clearing the land for farming wouldn't have done it, as there would have been little manpower or time left for farming.
If in fact there had been an organized effort of this scale during the historical period there would be no question as to who built them or when.  The local histories would have chronicled anything as all encompassing as that would have been.   


- smaller populations have built far larger structures of much more complexity. Most Mayan cities - for instance, Tikal - had populations in roughly the same range. Here's a pic of Tikal:
http://www.authenticmaya.com/images/ancient-tikal.gif
- There's no need to assume they needed to finish within decades. It could have taken centuries to build the structures, and there are plenty of precedents for this sort of thing.
- clearing the land for farming is a reasonable theory. The amount of population involved need not be great, as the stones could simply be added to the structures very gradually over a long period of time. Also: clearing land for farming doesn't really detract from the population that you need to farm. It's part and parcel of farming, just like breaking the soil or sowing seeds. It has to be done regularly as stones drift up through the topsoil from time to time.
-local histories would have recorded whoever built the structures, though that doesn't mean they were necessarily transmitted intact down to modern times.
-finally, there is no one else who could have done it. It was very difficult in premodern times just to reach the canary islands, and far beyond the capability of anyone to transport and supply an entire workforce just to build some meaningless piles of stone. Any group that would have done so would almost certainly have left cultural artifacts behind, probably worked into the design of the buildings themselves.


Edited by edgewaters - 01-Nov-2008 at 23:13
Back to Top
Sander View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator


Joined: 20-Mar-2007
Location: Netherlands
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 597
  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2009 at 14:16

With  nearly every issue  there is a pro and contra camp.  If a scholarly paper argues for a  19 th century date these scholars speak for themselves, not others. At the same time,  other scholars argue with more convincing evidence for much earlier dates.

 

That " 19 th century claim " is  ludicrous. Anybody who does not exchange  his own senses  for the opinion of someboyd else,  sees they are not rock collections by farmers,   but  are large planned structures with stairways and designs that correspond well with other pyramids of the old days. 

 

Besides, they were also mentioned in 17 th century records :

 

http://www.philipcoppens.com/nap_art12.html

Back to Top
cavalry4ever View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator Emeritus

Joined: 17-Nov-2004
Location: Virginia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 589
  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2009 at 08:48
This reminds me of long raging debate on Easter Island. This debate was settled not too long ago. This island had similar background: a backward culture, sparse population.  Now we understand their history better. In all my travels I never saw piles of field stones so well arranged. 
Is there a chance that some of monuments are truly ancient and some built as an imitation of older ones later?
Another issue is that Europeans have a tendency to de-emphasize achievements of civilizations they conquered and emphasize their own. Even without any such bias, local studies may be too much influenced by folk stories that originated within Spanish settlers.


Edited by cavalry4ever - 29-Jul-2009 at 09:01
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.