Pre-Christian Poland?

Kneze, Kneź, in arabic sources gnez, in one relation khagan Rus. In Poland also książę or ksiądz, kniądz and kniaź. It's interesting that ksiądz was latter transfered to name any christian priest. In my opinion książę might remain old IE kshiatria.

ok, pre-christian Poland, during my tirp to Poland this summer I picked up some books, one ofthem was "Poczet krolow i ksiazat", it has a list of King's before Christian Poland emerged, hope you can udnerstand Polish good: KRAK- Maz szlachetny, biegly w walce, jako pierwszy z Polakow obrany krolem, podjawszy walke z Gallami, wyslanymi tu przez krola Aswerusa, pokonal ich.
W owym czasie smok zostal zgladzony na skale przez mlodszego syna krola Kraka. Ow nastepnie dopuscil sie bratobojstwa, za co potem zostal pozbawiony korony w Polsce i nie objal wladzy po ojcu.
WANDA- Corka Kraka, ktora zwyciezywszy krola Lemanow nie poslubila go, a skladajac ofiare bogom o pomyslnosc i szczescie narodu a wlasnej wole rzucila sie do Wisly.
Za panowania Wandy Polacy od imienia wladczyni zostali nazywani Wandalami. Przez sto lat Polacy nie mieli Krola.
LESZKO- Pierwszy, bezpotomny maz, biegly w sztuce zlotniczej, podstepem zwyciezyl Aleksandra Wielkiego pod Lysa Gora. W jego czasach Aleksander Wielki w walce z Polakami poniosl sromotna kleske, po czym zaniechal dalszego pustoszenia kraju i odstapil w pokoju.
LESZKO- Drugi, maz skromny, zwyciezyl innych w wyscigu do mety; w nagrode za zwyciestwo zostal wybrany korlem. Ow byl chwalony z powodu czterech cnot a mianowicie: mestwa, hojnosci, wstrzemiezliwosci i pokory.
LESZKO- Trzeci, jedyny syn Leszka Drugiego, trzykrotnie pokonal Juliusza Cezara. Ten polaczyl sie z nim wiezami przyjazni: oddal mu za zone swa siostre Julie, ktora urodzila Leszkowi dwudziestu synow. W owych czasach Chrystus narodzil sie w Betlejem, a Oktawian, syn siostrzenicy Juliusza Cezara przyjal godnosc imperatora.
POPIEL- Pierworodny syn Leszka Trzeciego, najstarszy sposrod dwudziestu braci.
POPIEL- Wnuk Leszka Trzeciego, syn Popiela. Jego wraz z zona i dwoma synami zjadly myszy w wiezy kruszwickiego grodu. Byl rowniez zwany Chosciskiem. Wtedy to Krol Popiel otrul dwudziestu braci ojca, dla ktorych sam byl bratankiem, oni zas jego stryjami.
PIAST- Ubogi rolnik z Kruszwicy, przez meczennikow Jana i Pawla w cudowny sposob zostal wyniesiony na krola, gdy rod Popiela wyginal ze szczetem. Od jego panowania bierze poczatek nowa dynastia krolow.
SIEMOWIT- Jedyny syn Piasta, niezwykle laskawy i energiczny; zawsze odnosil triumfalne zwyciestwo nad wrogiem. Ow Siemowit odzyskal wiele utraconych ziem, uwazano, ze we wszystkich przedsiewzieciach sprzyjalo mu szczescie, wykazywal sie przedsiebiorczoscia i zawsze dzialal z pomyslnym skutkiem.
LESZKO- Czwarty, syn Siemowita. We wszystkich poczynaniach wstepowal w slady ojca.
SIEMOMYSL- Syn Leszka Czwartego, ktory nad wszystkimi ziemiami i poddanymi swemu wladztwu panowal w pokoju.
....the other are the Christain Kings, Mieszko and so on. You may o may not believe what it says aboutt hese kings, but thats what it says in the book.

Somehow I saw that coming, yeah Imnot gonna go word for word with it but I'll sum them up ok so i got the book form Poland history of Kings and princes of Poland. And they have this list of past Kings...and here we go..
KRAK- a nobel man, good warrior, first of the Poles to be chosen as King, fought against Gauls(? if someone knows from POlish Gallami help me out, Im assuming it's Gaus, in Latin it's Gallis)anyways they were sent by there king Aswerus, Krak defeated them. Kraks son would be the conqueror of the dragon which I assume you hear in Polish folklore, he would not be the next King after his father becuase he killed his own brother.
WANDA-Kraks Daughter, she was supposed to marry the King of Lemanow( Germans), but she refused and sacrificed her self to the Gods by throwing herself in the Wisla (Vistula). After the reign of Wanda the Poles called themselves Wandalami(Wandals, Vandals). For 100 years the Poles werw without a King.
LESZKO- The first,he defeated Alexander the Great under Lysa Gora.(yeah I know hard to believe, and it may be unrealistic, but it's what it says, and no where in this book does it say legendary kings or mythical)After Alexander lost to the Poles he left the country in peace.
LESZKO- The second, defeated others in a race to Meta(?).As victor he was chosen as King. he was very honorable he had 4 traits that was very famous for, I can't translate them dammit.
LESZKO- The third, the only son of Leszko II, three times he defeated Julius Caesar. They later became good aquiantances and Caesar gave Leszko as his wife his sister Julia which gave birth to 20 sons for Leszko. Elsewhere around the same time Christ is born in Bethlehem. Oktavian somehow related to Caesar gets in good witht he empire(dont know how to translate that one too good).
POPIEL- first born son of Leszko III, the oldest amongst 20 brothers.
POPIEL-grandson of Leszko III, son of Popiel.He was eaten along with his wife and kids by mice in the tower of Kruszwickiego. He was later called Choscisko(if you watched Stara Basn you can maybe make some connections here). He killed all of his fathers brothers by poisoning them.
PIAST-He was chosen by some Martyrs I guess, Jan and Pawel to be King, when Popiel and his heirs all died out.
From him starts a new Dynasty of Kings.
SIEMOWIT- Piasts only son, unnaturally full of energy, and sincere. He always brought about great victories against his enemies. Siemowit regained lots of lost territory.
LESZKO- The fourth, son of Siemowit. he followed in his fathers footsteps with everything he did.
SIEMOMYSL- son of Leszko IV, he had reigned in peace.
and thats it the rest are Mieszko which was the one who accepted christianity,a nd thats that, interesting to hear though that Mieszko was born blind, after 7 years though he would be able to see.

Are the Kings you mentioned considered to be "Piast" or it's only Piast who started that royal bloodline. And can you answer my question about Stara Basn, why did they call Popiel something Piastoca(or something close to that) and there's a guy named Piastun and then there's Siemovit? That really confused me.

Sarmata, all this - let say - " legends" came from the  chronicle of Wincenty Kad�ubek

In fact earlier Gall Anonim chronicle   is much more trustworthy..

Yes Olbrzychski was Piastun and that younger actor that I don't remember the name was Siemowit.

Ok thats a logical answer..

Originally posted by cavalry4ever There are no Teutonic Knights in Poland at that time. Holly Roman Empire is the main threat. This is why Mieszko took Christianity from Czech kingdom.

 

Well, actually he was baptised in Regensburg (Germany). He just didnt want to do anything with Saxons.

Originally posted by tzar Excuse me, can I ask you a question (not about this topic, but it is about the Poles) Are you  slavs or not?!

 "slavs" difinitely not. Slavs rather not. Anyway what about you Kutriugurs?

Kutriguri, Onoguri - proto-Bulgars.