Curious Where Everyone Stands - help info

Here are my humble thoughts.
� Considering they did not dread to start a war unlawfully and lying to their people and finally to completely mess up a situation that could have been handled more skillfully. Result: the leading team ought to be changed.
� Setting up a scheme for withdrawl is stupid because if so violent groups in Iraq would have an horizon. If a withdrawl is to be decided it would have to be as discret and quick as possible.
� The problems of a withdrawl are self-evident. What would have to be done is certainly a form of dialogue with the terrorists so the main issue (violence) can be partly solved. And hopefully these groups would start fighting each others (it worked in Northern Ireland, Spain and Algeria so no arm trying).
� The war is surely draining very useful taxpayers money away from home which is not a good thing and make pretty certain that the number of troops in Iraq will actually drop by 2009 or even earlier. Afghanistan is a hot spot that also requires lot of attention.
� It is sure that the US lost a lot there in term of image and diplomatic appeal.
� Considering Israel, I'm guessing that they have other stuff to care about.
� Islam fundamentally violent? Why? Obviously numerious Muslim countries are obviously peaceful not mentionning tens of million of peaceful Muslim individual. A bit as if I was asking: America fundamentally violent?

I do not see how democracy in Islamic countries is a fallacy, Islam is compatible with democracy as is Christianity, and most other major religions, interpretations vary, however fundamentally all are based on equality, and some sort of popular consent when it comes to communal decision making, which are akin to democracy.

The US and Britain should leave as soon as possible, given the need to provide security for the civilians and troops pulling out.

Edited by gcle2003 - 04-May-2007 at 11:05

Originally posted by Panther Sorry for the double post!

Well delete one silly! :)

Great to see you here old man. Great place.

Iraq War=Fools Crusade

I think I'm with gcle in the "broke, can;t be fixed so let 'em slaughter each other".

Personally I supported the war in 2003. Whilst suspicious of the 45 minutes claim the idea of Saddam having chemical or biological weapons didn't seem too unlikely a possibility seeing as he had previously had and used them. Furthermore it removed a dictator who had opressed his people, torturing and killing them for his nepotistic regime. It also seemed like catch up for all those UN mandates and decrees he'd broken and barely been punished for. Furthermore it meant no more sanctions for Iraqis.

However the whole thig has been disasterously handled, there are plenty of accounts out there so I won't state why. Inability in the US led administration coupled to the Iraqi's desire to slaughter each other on sectarian grounds and the like means that I think it is a lost cause. The war has essentially been lost on the domestic fronts. The US Army (sorry, Coalition) can hold for as long as it likes but it remains a conventional army (someone I know made a point about this yesterday- the average American carries 120-140 pounds of kit. The average insurgent 30-40.) More than that the Army still hasn't adapted to new terror tactics (see John Robb's Brave New War" for more).

In the end the people want to kill each other and in CI the people do what the people want. Theres nothing the US can do but divide into three states, tell the Turks and Kurds to behave, evacuate its interpreters and pull out ASAP. Perhaps lighten up immigration laws concerning Iraqis who worked for them and establish guarded cantonments where various groups can gather before being shuttled to whichever is theirs of the three states.

That a series of localised wars will happen is likely. That this will cause destruction and death is certain too. But Iraqis have spoken- they want to kill each other. And in the end all that will happen is some Hollywood directors will make cliched movies in ten years then move on to criticise whatever bumbling incompetent is next. The Iraqis of course, will be forgotten. Occasionally a journalist will hunt down one of those communities that barely survive, like the Marsh Arabs or Christians and write a photo-op. Everyone will cluck their tongues then forget and get on with their lives.

As for Israel- its moved beyond the necessary defense into crazy land. I dislike the constantly hostile media coverage and the way all Israelis get lumped with the settlers but I feel that Israle won't deserve my total sympathy until they get rid of the "colonised" land.

Bush- the man is, if not stupid, innocent and foolish. Bad qualities in a President, worse in a war President. A bully certainly, if a hapless one.

Islam? Like all religions it is essentially open to interpretation. What people choose to do with it is up to them.

As for oil, well I don't doubt it came up as a pro in the invasion plans. However a swift glance will show that the oil is not being best protected at the moment. If the US was truly in it only for the oil then thats all they'd have gone for.

America should get the **** out: it has no business, other than pure murderous greed,  in being there. Simple as that. 

The United States need to keep going its military industry, so it will never stop to invade other countries and kill people.

Up to a million Iraqis have died since and as a direct result of the invasion - from official government sources.  The Us has since 1991 been responsible fo rhte deaths of MILLIONS of Iraqis - they don't need to round anyone up - Iraq itself is a concentration camp.