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tommy
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Topic: Switzerland was not attacked by Hitler, why? Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 13:28 |
Why hitler did not take Hitler, ther are many official saying, hilly landscape, brave soldiers of this small nation, but was it because even Hitler needed a bank to keep his money,of course he could not put his money to West Indies, or under his bed, then he needed the banking system of Switzerland, but my professor from switzerland disagrees, what do you think
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leung
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Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 14:03 |
I had always thought it was because of the banking so I never actually looked into it . I will watch this thread with interest, thanks for asking the question!
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sreenivasarao s
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Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 15:05 |
During both the World Wars Switzerland was not attacked. Switzerland
almost always retained its independence and a neutral stance. The Swiss policy
was Prvention de Ia
guerre par Ia
volont de se dfendre
(Prevention of war by willingness to defend ourselves.).This included the
policy of maintaining equidistance from both the warring parties. What we can
learn from Switzerland is that having a huge army and heavy armaments is NOT
the only option available for defending your borders.
In World War II,
Hitler wanted the Swiss gold reserves and needed free communications and
transit through Switzerland
to supply Axis forces in the Mediterranean. However,
when military planners looked at Switzerland's
well-armed citizenry, mountainous terrain, and civil defense fortifications, Switzerland
lost its appeal as an invasion target.
While two World Wars raged, Switzerland
enjoyed a secure peace.
There is a detailed discussion on Why did Hitler not attack Switzerland?
on the website- History of Switzerland -Switzerland's Role-in World War II. Please follow the
link: http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/switzerland-second-world-war-
ii.html . That perhaps was the Swiss view of things.
What was the German View?
Edited by sreenivasarao s - 18-Apr-2007 at 03:34
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Spartakus
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Posted: 17-Apr-2007 at 15:49 |
Too high (the Alpes), too rich (banks).
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 00:57 |
Too many men with rifles.
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Ovidius
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 06:13 |
This is a question that is often ignored because people have a ridiculous notion of what Hitler was planning and why he invaded nations.
Turn the question around - WHY WOULD HITLER INVADE SWITZERLAND. In that is your answer.
Switzerland is a small nation, neutral and actually continued to support the Nazi regime throughout the war. Its mountanous, it has not major resource, it is not politically unstable, nor has a major military threat. It didn't once posture against the Nazi's or threatened them in anyway.
Hitler, however you might look at it, was nor 'really' a maniac. His foreign office was a machine of brilliance, they were brilliant. If anyone is aware of their records, they will understand this. Now obviously, they had a sinister regime behind them, but from a tactical point of view, they were exceptional.
There were many natiosn that Hitler did invade and didn't care to invade. Including countries that ignored Hitler's calls to do things. Hitler didn't invade Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Spain, Portugal etcetc. Why? Becuase he didn't need too. This isn't to say he wouldn't have invaded them, its just to say he had no need to waste resources attacking nations that would, basically, not attack him.
He even, more or less, allowed France to rule itself, in the regions that were of no tactical use to him.
You'd be suprised in many nations that still believe the Red Army was worse than that Nazi's, simply because its the only army they remember, its the army that went around raping women and stealing things.
Hitler was satisfied with the nations around Germany being stable. Quite often, he supported more moderate leaders instead of supporting true extremists - Antonescu in Romania, Tiso in Slovakia and Horthy in Hungary are the best examples. They were stable leaders, not nazi's. They were authoritarian and supportive of Germany, but quite often didn't give troops or didn't buy into Nazi ideology.
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 07:25 |
Originally posted by Ovidius
This is a question that is often ignored because people have a ridiculous notion of what Hitler was planning and why he invaded nations.
Turn the question around - WHY WOULD HITLER INVADE SWITZERLAND. In that is your answer.
Switzerland is a small nation, neutral and actually continued to support the Nazi regime throughout the war. Its mountanous, it has not major resource, it is not politically unstable, nor has a major military threat. It didn't once posture against the Nazi's or threatened them in anyway.
Hitler, however you might look at it, was nor 'really' a maniac. His foreign office was a machine of brilliance, they were brilliant. If anyone is aware of their records, they will understand this. Now obviously, they had a sinister regime behind them, but from a tactical point of view, they were exceptional.
There were many natiosn that Hitler did invade and didn't care to invade. Including countries that ignored Hitler's calls to do things. Hitler didn't invade Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Spain, Portugal etcetc. Why? Becuase he didn't need too. This isn't to say he wouldn't have invaded them, its just to say he had no need to waste resources attacking nations that would, basically, not attack him.
He even, more or less, allowed France to rule itself, in the regions that were of no tactical use to him.
You'd be suprised in many nations that still believe the Red Army was worse than that Nazi's, simply because its the only army they remember, its the army that went around raping women and stealing things.
Hitler was satisfied with the nations around Germany being stable. Quite often, he supported more moderate leaders instead of supporting true extremists - Antonescu in Romania, Tiso in Slovakia and Horthy in Hungary are the best examples. They were stable leaders, not nazi's. They were authoritarian and supportive of Germany, but quite often didn't give troops or didn't buy into Nazi ideology.
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Exactly.. I wonder could we also add the fact that Switzerland closed her broders to the Jews who wanted to flee from the Nazis, and let them get caught by Nazis?
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sreenivasarao s
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 08:26 |
Hi Ovidius
Yes Sir. I quite see the point.This is what I was referring to when I
mentioned at the end of my post "What then was the German view?".
Thanks.
Regards.
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Ovidius
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 08:30 |
I doubt it, TheDiplomat. The Jewish question was not placed above military strategy. Even If Switzerland had continued to allow Jews to flood in, the Nazi's would still not have invaded.
They didn't invade Bulgaria even though they protected their Jews. In Denmark there was very little action when they gave protection to their Jews. Sweden was also vital in helping Jews in Europe, but their neutrality, although suspect, was never really forcibly taken away.
The Jewish Question was a secondary issue to Winning the War.
Not to say that Hitler wouldn't have hardened his stance in victory or anything else. But i seriously doubt there would be more action against any nation with or without Jew protection.
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Paul
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 09:07 |
The Germans never needed to invade Switzerland, it was surrounded by German puppet regimes.
Switzerland relied on germany for 100% of its imports and exports as well as most of its coal.
If Germany closed the border Switzerland would have been in darkness in a week and anarchy in a fortnight.. Worse in winter.
Pretty much Germany said to Switzerland, jump and the Swiss said how high. Why would Germany want to invade a country like that. The whole reason they set up Vichy France is because it's much better to have a compliant self ruling entity than having the expense of militarily occupying somewhere.
As for Germany's policy with Jews. I don't think anything can even be gained from analsing that, it simply wasn't rational. In one place they try to exterminate them, in another they let them join the Nazi Party.
Edited by Paul - 18-Apr-2007 at 09:11
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Ovidius
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 11:54 |
As for Germany's policy with Jews. I don't think anything can even
be gained from analsing that, it simply wasn't rational. In one place
they try to exterminate them, in another they let them join the Nazi
Party. |
ermm? No they didn't. Are you perhaps talking about different periods here?
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tommy
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 13:16 |
hE NEEDED SWEDEN IRON ORE, BUT HE DID NOT INVADE SWEDEN, SINCE THE LATTER PROVIDED HIM WITH THE RESOURCE.
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pekau
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 21:59 |
Originally posted by Sparten
Too many men with rifles.
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And they attacked Soviet Union.
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pekau
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Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 22:04 |
Good answer, Ovidius.
Um.. did Switzerland allowed Jews to flee into their nation? Hitler may have been brilliant, but his hatred towards foreign race often costed more than you may realize. I assumed that they blockaded Jewish immigration, like most of the countries at that time... including United States, Great Britain and even Canada, which appears to the world now as the peacekeepers.
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Scorpian
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 05:11 |
In my opinion had things panned out for Hitler then even neutral countries (regardless of existing pacts and agreements) would have been invaded and their resources used to further the Third Reich war machine.
Fortunately Hitler had his hands full elsewhere; often ignored his Generals advice and seems to have stupidly invaded Russia (Operation Barbarossa) regardless of the German-Soviet non aggresion pact and before securing his power base.
Maybe he should have neutralised the rest of Europe and Britain (Operation Sealion) first.
I've often wondered what would have happened had Britain and Germany united at the onset and not slogged it out with one another. What do you reckon New World Order or what
(Pawns or Casualties of war?)
I remember my old headmaster given us a history lesson on the blocking of Jew immigration and why countries were loathe to accept them in large numbers during time of war. He told us that such an influx of mass immigration would be an over burden on a countries own food reserves etc and they'd be a logistical nightmare on an already over burdened society.
Seems everyone turned a blind eye to what was really going on simply because they were not in a position at that time to do anything about it and secondary so as Germany would utilise much needed resources/manpower of their own.
Edited by Scorpian - 19-Apr-2007 at 06:12
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Ovidius
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 06:50 |
Originally posted by pekau
Good answer, Ovidius.
Um.. did Switzerland allowed Jews to flee into their nation? Hitler may have been brilliant, but his hatred towards foreign race often costed more than you may realize. I assumed that they blockaded Jewish immigration, like most of the countries at that time... including United States, Great Britain and even Canada, which appears to the world now as the peacekeepers.
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Firstly, i think you need to look at the Jewish policies of Germany first. There are vastly different periods of Germany policies towards the jews, they clearly became increasingly hostile up until 1939/40. Now as for Switzerland, as i said before, i do not believe it is in anyway relevant that they closed their borders to jews or not. The fact is, they did, but Germany was not specifically interested in going into nations and pulling out all their Jews. Some pressure was placed upon his allies, who did jump when he requested - Romania for example, were very quick to export their Jewish populations. However, to say that Hitler was going to suddenly invade a nation that did give up its Jews is a bit far fetched. As I said - Military policy was more important that the Jewish Question. One example is Sweden - a neutral nation, who had its sovereignty stepped on by the Nazi's a few times. But during this period it protected Jews and even allowed Denmark to use Sweden to defent its Jews. But Sweden was never formally invaded. There were even people actively helping Jews escape to Sweden in the period. Hungary is another example, except for the region the gained in Ruthenia, they didn't let their Allies have any of their Jews. It wasn't until they basically switched sides and were invaded by Germany that their Jews were sent to Auschwitz. So Hitler never, as far as I am aware, invaded a nation to kill Jews.
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Ovidius
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 06:53 |
In my opinion had things panned out for Hitler then even neutral countries (regardless of existing pacts and agreements) would have been invaded and their resources used to further the Third Reich war machine.
Fortunately Hitler had his hands full elsewhere; often ignored his Generals advice and seems to have stupidly invaded Russia (Operation Barbarossa) regardless of the German-Soviet non aggresion pact and before securing his power base.
Maybe he should have neutralised the rest of Europe and Britain (Operation Sealion) first. |
There is no evidence for this. Hitler may or may not have wanted 'world domination', but there isn't much evidence for this. He wanted to form a new Reich that was the most powerful nation, no doubt. But he was fairly liberal with his allies and the Western nations he invaded. Look at his policies towards Denmark, for example. As for resources, Hitler got all the resources he could get from his allies. There isn't a nation in Europe that wasn't helping the German Economy at the time. Except, the UK of course!
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Scorpian
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 10:24 |
Like I said that was my own opinion.
Seems your doing a wee bit speculating on what Hitler would or wouldn't do yourself
Edited by Scorpian - 19-Apr-2007 at 10:44
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Ovidius
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 12:39 |
Heh, I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, merely expressing that there is little evidence on the matter.
You are right that with such questions you have to 'speculate' to some extent. There is no way to prove a counter-factual! We can only suggest the most 'suitable' possibilities and compare it to things Hitler did do.
But lets face it, at certain parts of his reign, he did many unexplicable things.
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Scorpian
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Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 13:23 |
Originally posted by Ovidius
Heh, I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong, merely expressing that there is little evidence on the matter.
You are right that with such questions you have to 'speculate' to some extent. There is no way to prove a counter-factual! We can only suggest the most 'suitable' possibilities and compare it to things Hitler did do.
But lets face it, at certain parts of his reign, he did many unexplicable things.
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like ordering the biggest mass murder in history under Ethnic Nationalism?
Hitler believed in the 'Volk' and anyone not German Aryan (same blood) were deemed inferior and thus fair game to be dominated.
I still reckon his regime would eventually have gotten round to all those neutral countries if for nothing more than simply to dominate what they would see as inferior peoples.
Anyways like you said we can only speculate to some extent the most 'suitable' possibilities and compare it to things Hitler did do.
I'm not saying your opinion is right or wrong either; I was merely expressing an over whelming evidence that Hitler isn't such a nice dude as you would portray him.
My Volk comment source taken from:
Edited by Scorpian - 19-Apr-2007 at 13:31
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