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Columbus, Italian...or not?
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Caliph
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Columbus, Italian...or not?
    Posted: 06-Mar-2007 at 20:15
I remember there was a show awhile back on the Dicovery Channel discussing whether he was Spanish or Italian. They delved into DNA, his writting ability, reasons he would have hid his true identity, and who his possible family could be.
 
Anyways, I sometime bring it up with my father and we discuss it alittle. But the reason I bring it up is because we come from a Italian background, and Columbus day is considered hte Holiday for Italian Americans in the US. If he was found to be Spanish with out a question, would the Holiday still be celebrated Italian?
 
Anyways, what do you guys think he was. I have the feeling he probably was Spanish after watching that show, but I have to say I pretty ignorant on his past and the whole debate on him. I'm asking you guys to help me in this subject, as you are the best to ask, well when your interested in the subject too!Tongue
 
Look forward to a good discussion.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2007 at 20:23
What's the problem? In ancient times, Spain was the main province of Rome, and for a long time Italy was part of Spain.
 
Anyways. There is no society closer to the Spaniard in customs, language and way of being than the Italian. A Spanish speaker, for example, can see the RAI and understand almost everything is said in there!
 
Some theories say he was Catalan, anyways. Personally, I believe he was not Italian. But Vespucci it was, so no big deal. Spaniards had sailors and soldiers of different nationalities in theirs navy and army.
 
Pinguin
 


Edited by pinguin - 06-Mar-2007 at 20:24
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 03:06
There is also some evidence of him being a Greek from Chios.
In his journals he keeps notes in Greek. There were many Greeks who left Greece after the Ottomans conquest. Many of them went to Italy.
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Posts: 658 		  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 06:02
Add Portuguese, Egyptian and French to the long list of possible nationalities.
 
The fact is that no theory can present solid proof of Columbus origins. Italy is considered the strongest, because of the efforts from the historians(?) of the risorgimento and the fact that there was a Cristoforo Colombo in Genoa more or less at the same time. 
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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 08:38
Another time ... Confused
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 09:16
The question is: if Columbus was Italian and his name was "Columbus", why he changed his last name to Coln?
 
 
 
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 09:50
Pinguin, he was African.  There's a tribe called the Columbu.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 09:56

Ha Ha Ha. You bet. He came from Mali and was descendent of the explorers of Abu Masa.

C'mon

Pinguin
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 12:31
What's the problem? In ancient times, Spain was the main province of Rome, and for a long time Italy was part of Spain.
There isn't a problem. And I'm not sure what you mean by Spain being the main province of Rome. I think Egypt would have had more importance as it was considered the bread basket of the Empire. All other provinces were pretty much at the same importance with goods and man power. I used to read and study alot about the Romans, maybe I've forgotten something about the Province of Hispania.
And Italy was apart of Spain? I feel very ignorant now since I don't recall this. Can you please give me the time period, I'd really like to study up on this.
The only real problem though, is that if Colombus is considered Spainish, or any other nation for that matter, it won't be a Italian American Holiday in the US. Though it's really not the world's biggest problem by anmy stretch, infact not really much of a problem, but I think Italian Americans like having a Holiday they can consider their own.
 
And about him writting in Greek in his journals, I never heard that, all I've heard was that he wrote in Spanish in his Jouranls and to his brothers I believe.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 13:57
Originally posted by pinguin

The question is: if Columbus was Italian and his name was "Columbus", why he changed his last name to Coln?

It was not unusual during the late middle ages to translate one's name in different languages. In Portugal for example he called himself Cristovo Colombo.
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Posts: 658 		  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 14:28
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Originally posted by pinguin

The question is: if Columbus was Italian and his name was "Columbus", why he changed his last name to Coln?

It was not unusual during the late middle ages to translate one's name in different languages. In Portugal for example he called himself Cristovo Colombo.
 
Christovam Colom, actually. The name "Colombo" didn't come into use in Portugal until the first half of the 20th century. 
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Posts: 117 		  Quote Kashmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 18:52
i even heard columbus was indian, just trying a way to find back to his homeland india.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 19:30
Originally posted by Kashmiri

i even heard columbus was indian, just trying a way to find back to his homeland india.
 
I don't want to be harsh, but that is nonsence, unless more convincing evidences are given.
 
I know that Columbus fled from Italy to persuade that Spain should start to look for Indian riches. Spain was getting ticked, jealous of Portugal's success in sea trades...
     
   
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Posts: 117 		  Quote Kashmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 20:06
i am not saying he was indian, i am just saying what some indians are saying.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 20:09
If Columbus were Indian he would had attracted the attention very quickly. The fact is nobody noticed Columbus for years.
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Posts: 117 		  Quote Kashmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 20:10
lol how so he would have attracted attention if he was indian?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 07:39
Simple. Remember that the times of Columbus were also the times of the defeat of a Muslim culticultural society, the expulsion of Jews, the times of Inquisition, etc. Any person perceived as different, particularly in the courts, would have attracted lot of suspiction.
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 07:56
Originally posted by pinguin

Ha Ha Ha. You bet. He came from Mali and was descendent of the explorers of Abu Masa.

C'mon

Pinguin



So in other words, he was black. Therefore, blacks discovered the New World. Therefore, blacks are responsible for the colonial era. Therefore, blacks are responsible for the African slave trade...

Gotta love it when you can turn Afrocentrism against itself.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 08:29
Well, is not related to the topic, but Ghana officially asked forgiviness because its participation in the Slave Trade. It is well known that the African Kingdoms themselves were the main agents in capturing people to supply the slave traders. That part of the history is usually forgotten.
 
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 11:25
Looks wise, it's said that Columbus had red hair and fair skin. It's said his face was always red from sun burn. Now geneticly speaking, atleast for Europeans, fair skin and red hair seem to go hand in hand. Their skin also burns easily and it seems people writting about Columbus made it known that he had sun burn on his face.
We also know in Northern Italy that there was alot of different Germanics coming in a settling the area. Lombards themselves even brought mutliple tribes, like Saxons with them to fight, I belive it's the Visigoths. Anyways, do we know if they are known for having Red hair? As far as I know, the Lombards are said to have blonde.
And what kind of stock are the Catalans of? Pinguin brought them up as a possible ancestry that Colombus is of. Were they always Spanish? Or were they settled by Germanic, or even North African settlers? Because isn't it said that some Middle Eastern Countries have a degree of red hair too? But I'm not sure that'd explain the fair skin.
 
I'm just trying to make connections with his description, maybe it'll further discussion.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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