Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Vikings - who are they? Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 22:53 |
Hello all,
I've heard yet another meaning of the word Viking, as fjord-men, from one of my books.
I believe Vinland (L'Anse au Meadow) was meant to be a permanent settlement. I have a National Geographic article that talks about nine structures, one of which measured 70 by 55 feet (that is 3850 square feet!). The settlement existed for more than 3 years, it was Thorfinn Karlsefni who was determined to make it permanent. It seems that the Vikings were always short of land and that unrest in the homeland would constantly leave them no option except for spreading further and further.
Amazing, they plundered some Italian coastal towns, passed by Byzantium (on land!), sailed down the Volga, and even traded with Baghdad.
And is it not ironic that Hrolf promised to protect France from further Norse attacks?
Zheng-ru
Edited by Zheng-ru - 28-Feb-2007 at 23:13
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 22:59 |
Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures.
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Northman
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 30-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4262
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 02:34 |
Originally posted by Zheng-ru
Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures. |
Yes of course - please do!
|
|
Knights
Caliph
suspended
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Location: AUSTRALIA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3224
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 02:36 |
Originally posted by Zheng-ru
Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures. |
Excellent! I look forward to seeing it. Zheng-ru, correct me if I am wrong, but are you the guy who built that ballista and posted pictures of it?
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 19:12 |
Yes Knights, that was me.
Here are some photos...
(the Vikings were not just barbaric raiders )
I tried to make it as accurate as I could. This one is about 12 cm wide and 17 cm long.
There is a piece of wall that is crooked, it is actually intentional, it can be removed to examine the inside staves better. Also, I decided not to put a roof on it.
- Zheng-ru
Edited by Zheng-ru - 02-Mar-2007 at 19:44
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 20:13 |
Of what year is the church? In the times of the Viking invasions, the Norse were mainly Pagans. Only at the end of theirs period of expansion they converted to Christianism.
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:41 |
You are right, the Norwegian stave churches were first built in the 11th century, after the Viking onslaught.
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Northman
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 30-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4262
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:41 |
Beautiful model Zheng-ru.
Originally posted by pinguin
Of what year is the church? In the times of the Viking invasions, the Norse were mainly Pagans. Only at the end of theirs period of expansion they converted to Christianism.
|
Stave churches were build roughly between 1150 and 1500. Read more HERE.
However, this is no indication of the earliest presence of cristianity. There were other simpler churches before these. Ansgar was a missionary in Scandinavia in the beginning of the 9'th century and had many followers, particular in Sweden.
The first Danish christian king was Harald Bluetooth who in 960 declared he "made the Danes Christian" on the runestone you can see in my signature. Of course, this is a truth with room for modifications.
From that time it really escalated. In the next couple of centuries more than 2,000 churches were build in Denmark (mostly square granite) and most of them are still in use.
This one is typical - the white tower with the church bell was added after the reformation in 1536. The gray roofing is lead.
~ Northman
Edited by Northman - 02-Mar-2007 at 21:45
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:58 |
Thanks very much, Northman.
Maybe I am wrong, I thought they were first built in the 11th century though.
Here is the Borgund stavkirche from Laerdal, http://folk.uio.no/nilsroar/laerdal/laerdal.html and a diagram from stavechurch.org:
Edited by Zheng-ru - 02-Mar-2007 at 22:17
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 22:07 |
Here are more photos, from Wikipedia:
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|
Styrbiorn
Caliph
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2810
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 04:57 |
They were built as soon as Christianity appeared. The stave technique was hardly a new invention, and it is believed the temples to the old gods were built with the same technology. In fact the Borgund church can be considered the peak of that type of architecture, since after 1150 stone started to replace wood in church buildings. Though stave churches were still built in the 16th century, they were an exception and usually very small.
Some smaller ones have been starting to be rebuilt though. The Skaga church from 1137 for example, which was demolished in the 19th century as punishment for the local population keeping a lot of pagan traditions in their beliefs. Rebuilt a few years ago, it's an example of the smaller and way more common stave churches.
|
|
Northman
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 30-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4262
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 05:50 |
Originally posted by Zheng-ru
Thanks very much, Northman.
Maybe I am wrong, I thought they were first built in the 11th century though.
|
I wont dispute that, although people tend to designate the term "stave" to all wooden churches wich isnt correct. Of course it was an ongoing process of development and I belive there must have been many stages between "post" churhes and "stave" churches.
By large - a stave building is (mainly) supported by vertical staves (pillars) inside the building in contrast to buildings where the outside walls and posts are the supporting elements.
Styrbiorn can probably elaborate if necessary.
|
|
Zheng-ru
Samurai
Joined: 09-Feb-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 21:09 |
Ah, thanks for the information, Northman.
- Zheng-ru
|
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
|
|