the fall of Constantinople

yes but the genuese razza opened the gates of their part for the turks not all italian are so good at that battle 

John Julius Norwich, Roger Crowley and Steven Runciman all provide good accounts of this epic battle.
I will pick up this primary source a the library:
"Contemporary Greek Source for the Siege of Constantinople" and "Immortal Emperor" - Constantine the last Byzantine Emperor.

I wonder if aid from the west would have saved the city? Even if it had I think the Ottoman Turks would have still eventually taken the city.

This battle shows the same tenacity the Greeks had all the way back to ancient times and on to contemparary times such as their fight against the invading Italians during the last great war.

8,000 against 80-100,000
It it had not been for the large canon built by Urban the city might not have fallen. Mehmet almost consider giving up a few times but he wanted to fullfill an old prophecy.

The desire to take Constantinople goes way back but Greek Byzantine fortitude kept them at bay for centuries and good luck.lol

"Every Muslim believed that the Prophet himself would accord a special place in paradise to the first soldier who should force entry into the ancient Christian capital."
Runciman page 79 "The Fall of Constatinople

Originally posted by bg_turk Originally posted by eaglecap I would like to gather sources about this epic battle to write a fictional account about it so if anyone wants to help and be part of this let me know. Can Atilla has a cool clip that depicts the battle. It can be found here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puIa-C9bjBo

Thanks Big Turk- I will watch it again later when I can get sound- incredible

Wow nice Graphic and sounds

Edited by eaglecap - 02-Mar-2007 at 22:55

Wow, I remember that cartoon and video from when I was a kid. Brings back good memories, and at the time I had no idea what they were going on about, it thought it was funny.

Good points and many of the sources I have read cover this but it is good to honor our fallen ancestors. I have focused much more, lately, on Byzantine history than pre Greek or ancient Greek although my degree focused on the Bronze Age such as Cycladic and Minoan.
I have been asked to teach one day at the university about the Fall of Constantinople so this is an honor. It is a class about Islam but she wants to cover the fall of constantinople in 1453.

I have studied the whole range of Byzantine history and in fact one of my favorite books is "The Alexiad of Anna Comnena. I just recently read part of O' Byzantium. For now, my focus is on 1453 but Manzikert and 1204 are key points in our long history that I enjoy reading about.

10:43 pm so soon- ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Originally posted by Brasidas Originally posted by Top Gun yes but the genuese razza opened the gates�of their part�for the turks not all italian are so good at that�battle� � Actually there was no gate left open. It was a small door hidden in the side of the towers that was left open. No one knows who did such a thing. Those small doors were used by the besieged to harass the beseigers. Obviously either someone was paid to do it intentionally or someone just forgot to lock it. I opt for the first option. � It is amazing that only 4000 people guarded the wall and defended it, if I remember correctly, for 8 months! The city would not have fell if it wasn't for that small door. The Janisaries were the ones that found it open after they were defeated several times when making their final attacks. They were about to give up when the door was 'found'. � �

Yes, it was refered to as the Circus Gate and was spoken about in a so-called prophecy by the Muslims. So much legend has been created about this epic fight that it is really hard to know what is true and what is legend.

Donald M. Nicol talks brings up several legends about the death of the last Emperor Constantine Palaiologos. Did he die fighting in defense of Constantinople or did he escape. I think the evidence supports that he did indeed die in battle.
In a writing by Doukas after 1462 the following account is given"
The Emperor in despair stood, sword in hand and cried out, Is there no Christian here to take my head from me?" For he was abandoned and on his own...It goes on to say a Turk struck him down in battle
Immortal Emperor, Donald Nicol page 85

Did he flee to fight another day or did he fight to the bitter end? I believe he did but being of Byzantine hertiage I might be bias.

When I was in Istanbul I stood on the land walls of old Constantinople and said out loud, "Byzantium O' Byzantium." While I spoke these words I thought of the epic battle of 1453 and about Constantine Palaiologos, the last Emperor of the Romans.

Originally posted by Brasidas   Actually there was no gate left open. It was a small door hidden in the side of the towers that was left open. No one knows who did such a thing. Those small doors were used by the besieged to harass the beseigers. Obviously either someone was paid to do it intentionally or someone just forgot to lock it. I opt for the first option.

Actually the Byzantines made some "parades" outside the walls to reduce the moral of the Ottomans - the time between the battles- . About the little gate, it is likely to had been left opened by the Byz.soldiers while a parade like this took place. 
It is a fact that the main mass of jannisaries get through the city from this little gate.
Who opened this door?...This is an other story...I thing we should stay in the facts. Everybody seeing this from a different angle for his reasons.
For example Dodekatheists say that "orthodox patriarch ordered to open the door, ultra-nationalists and antisemites say that the Jews did it, the main mass believes that a betrayal took place... It doesen't really matters who did it but that it was done...

Well yes, they were monks, moral monks, not like those of the crusades... They did the right think forthemselves... The clergy (Patriarchs included) of Constantinopole had the most important role for the independence of the enslaved Orthodox population of Greece and Ottoman empire, so don't try to judge so hard the monks who were likely the majority old men(unable to fight), and some young people who delievered their live to their God and religion.

Byzantines did not fight in 1453, Constantinopolitans did. Concidering the relation between Constantinopolitans and military ( fictionary relation indeed) through eleven centuries, the fight for Constantinopole in 1453 was an achievement ( considering 1204) of courage...

Originally posted by es_bih Originally posted by Athanasios the�enslaved�Orthodox�population of Greece and Ottoman empire, �

Like it or not it is the truth- "Legacy of Jihad" by Dr. Bostom is filled with testimony from both primary sources and secondary historians that testify to the sad fact of enslavment of Byzantines by the Ottoman Turks. The Venetian prirates, of that period, were also guilty of slavery so I am not picking only on the Turks.