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Flying boats: The new terror of the sea?

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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flying boats: The new terror of the sea?
    Posted: 14-Feb-2007 at 00:55
I saw a video a while back of the Iranian navy indoctrinating a flying boat. I believe its use is as a swarm attack on a fleet or aircraft carrier or even a port. They fly at 100 knots and since they go 10 to 20 feet above water they cannot be caught by radar. Look kinda cheap to build too so 20,000 might not be that hard to come up with.  I guess they could also be modded to become submersible minisubs in order to be able to[optionally] sneak up on sea craft or lie in wait among reefs waiting for prey to come by.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D4GijAjw_o

How would a destroyer or even an aircraft carrier deal with these if, say 1000 of these showed up on the horizon suddenly and at 100 knots would be closing in within 2 minutes? Each one could have a special forces guy on board firing a couple of missiles upon approach, ditch the boat and dive, and maybe trying to climb aboard with a few hundred others[under heavy fire obviously]. I dunno what the defence against this kinda swarm attack would be, maybe flamethrowers or shrapnel bombs or FAOs or gas?  Geek
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 07:54
can it really  fire weapons? the clip claimes it, those  images however don't confirm it. (im pretty skeptical)

i need to see it really operate before i think its more than a good concept
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 08:19
hey you can buy such things from the USA (www.hovercraft.com)

this comes in a kit form, rather basic from your looking at maybe (US$) 5-6 grand.


A still from the iranian footage


here a picture of another from an australian sight


the danger from Iran is with the weapons your don't see, and that growing missiles technology.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 09:37
That civilian one offered in the US can also go on snow ice, mud, flat deserts and ofcourse water. They can also hold six people, and are alot cheaper then alot of military technology. I think if they were seen effective at all, the US would be looking into their own verson, it's obviously not a new thing.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 12:55
Yea but what would the US use it for? It already has effective means against any potential targets of that craft's design (i.e. ships).
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  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 13:47
The "flying boat" has been around since the early-mid 20th century. Even Jimmy Buffett cruises around in his Catalina. Also, 100 knots, I could scream by them in a Cessna...
 
I think it's a pretty cool bird though. It would probably sell quite well if they decide to bring it to market...
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 18:20
I was also looking at the flying boat in terms of, to put it crudely, suicide missions. We know that countries like the US who fight most of their wars on the other side of the planet do not have very many people willing to die in their forces. I would argue that most of the people signed up today signed up because they were attracted by the extremely low casualty rate of the US armed forces. Particularly the Navy and Air force. Army has a higher casualty rate I believe.

If the US attacked Iran then for the most part Iran would defend itself with the same types of weapons as the US has--and lose miserably.  For half a billion dollars or maybe a billion. Iran could have 100,000 of these flying boats positioned all over its coastline and if there was an all out attack the Iranian airforce MIGHT be able to hold its ground for a couple of hours before being wiped out. During those two hours the IAF could provide cover for 50,000 of these boats to reach pretty much all the US bases along the persian gulf. Is that not worth a lot in a military scenario? 100,000 crazed fanatics manning flying boats going on kamikaze style missions with a couple of decent missiles and rockets to launch?

Anyway when Iran was counter attacked by Iraq and Iranians were fighting tooth and nail for their very survival there were hundreds of thousands of Iranians willing to die. Now I am not sure what kinda brainwashing the Revolutionary guards go through but is it possible that they have no fear of death and suicide missions kamikaze style? So would this $5,000 weapon not be ideal for an army of 100,000 amphibious kamikaze type of strike force with some pretty decent training too?
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 19:44
in terms of kamakizi attack these could be useful but they have to be a bit bigger and hold a decent punch, other than that recon missions  could also be realistic.
 
Iran has a pretty good missile capability. I think it this more lethal, less costly (Human) way of dealing with the USN. While a few mssiles can be countered, mass co-ordinated firings can break through the CIWS defenses. This I think will be actaully used in an event of conflict. Other than that, the rest is all 'smoke and mirrors'.
 
Ive read of a scenario (maybe one of zagros's sourcesErmm) of iran using fast missile boats in swarming hit and run attack a few times. Not in a predictable uniform way it did during the iran-iraq/usn war, which the USN can (and has) counter(ed) but in a chaotic fluid way. Suicide attacks is very much conceiveable during the high intensity faze, when the chance to break through is at its highest, though you'd rather a fast boat so you can hit the water line.


Edited by Leonidas - 15-Feb-2007 at 19:45
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 21:36
There are numerous sites about the these crafts, its nothing new.
Here is a rather comprehensive site with articles, pics and movies.
 
 
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2007 at 22:24
I know the boats are not really new but I just get the idea that they could be used in combat in a very unorthodox way. Now that fast missile boat swarm attack. That is probably very hard to deal with because you do not have one large metallic structure to fire repeatedly at. Its almost as if the ship or air craft carrier were being attacked by fighter bombers.

Well its got me thinking now, maybe a new two man version of these flying boats could be made. One guy would pilot the craft and the other would fire bullets, rockets and missiles while it is being maneuvered. The advantage would be very simple. About 1000 of these could be used to sneak up on a fleet and then suddenly jump up between 30 and 50 feet in the air, repeatedly overflying the ships hulls and while flying over it, shoot indiscriminately at anything that moves and more importantly any gun turrets as well as parked airplanes and copters. This could be the equivalent almost, of a piranha attack on a human.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 06:05
maqsad, sorry for delay.
 
As some mentioned, these are not new.
 
Iran's navy does not use them for attack.  They use them to ferry elite troops.
 
If detected, they're supposed to be able to confuse enemy surface-to-air weapon systems by switching from airborne to surface mode, or confuse enemy air-to-surface weapon systems by doing the reverse, but I don't know if that's true.  Oh, the Iranian navy claims these boats are immune to most enemy submarines, but again, I'm not sure if that's true.
 
 
Edit: photo added.


Edited by Hellios - 03-Mar-2007 at 06:08
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:38
Np, the boat does seem to be very useful for quickly moving troops. Is this picture a generic hovercraft or something unique to the Iranian navy? 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 13:09
Originally posted by maqsad

Np, the boat does seem to be very useful for quickly moving troops. Is this picture a generic hovercraft or something unique to the Iranian navy? 
 
It's from IMF (Iran Military Forum).  Not much info was with it other than what I posted above.
 
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 16:28
Originally posted by Hellios

Originally posted by maqsad

Np, the boat does seem to be very useful for quickly moving troops. Is this picture a generic hovercraft or something unique to the Iranian navy? 
 
It's from IMF (Iran Military Forum).  Not much info was with it other than what I posted above.
 


It looks completely different from the other one in the official video. Maybe they have a larger version for troop elite transport.
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 14:38
maqsad,
 
Look at this flying ship idea. LOL
 
 
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 17:08
Wow someone has been spending too much time with Autocad. Why would the 8 jet engines not be attached to the regular wing? These guys should stick to their day jobs of repairing boats. LOL
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 19:53
How effective will be the wing operation given the proximity of engine exhaust flow to the wing. + wouldn't it be easier to just use boats.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 21:59
Boats cannot fly over coral reefs and buoys and sea mines without blowing up. Flying boats can however. Also boats would trigger movement sensors placed around buoys. 
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  Quote aghart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 05:17
The mind boggles!!  has no one heard of AWAC's. These canvas suicide flying boats wouldn't get within a hundred miles of a US task force.  Any success against other targets would be small and localised.  Mere pinpricks paid for by huge casualties  

Edited by aghart - 11-Mar-2007 at 05:18
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 07:07
What we saw in the video was a toy more useful for domestic consumption than taking out aegis/awac equipped US forces. The Iranian's will not show their cards until a conflict has started. Try and give these guys some credit!
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