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Why Sweden fail to build a strong empire
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Sweden fail to build a strong empire
    Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 20:59
Never underestimate the power of Mother Russia.
     
   
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 02:31
Originally posted by John Lenon

 
Of course resources are very usefull and important, but ... Right now I'm reading "Potop" written by Henric Senkevich. You 100% know this book Wink One of book's heroes said smth like: "Our population is bigger, land is more fertile, but why Swede won us ?" So, not only resources are the point Wink    
 
John Lenon, your quotation only confirms something. Finaly the Swedes were repulsed - thanks to bigger resources of P-L Commonwealth Wink
Anyway, the key to Swedish successes in 1655 was very easy - Sweden attacked P-L Commonwealth, when it was involved in civil war with Cossacks and in the war with Russia. The Swedes attacked from 3rd site.
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 02:33
Originally posted by axeman

I have never read these Sienkiewicz books, though from what I have heard - they should be very interesting. Going to check local library though i doubt that they will have these books.
John Lenon - in which language are you reading that book?
 
Axeman, there are also English editions of these books. It might be also interesting for you that there are movies (with English subtitles) based on these Sienkiewicz books.
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Posts: 1138 		  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 02:42
Originally posted by ataman

Originally posted by axeman

I have never read these Sienkiewicz books, though from what I have heard - they should be very interesting. Going to check local library though i doubt that they will have these books.
John Lenon - in which language are you reading that book?
 
Axeman, there are also English editions of these books. It might be also interesting for you that there are movies (with English subtitles) based on these Sienkiewicz books.


You mean Ogniem i Mieciem movie? It was shown couple of years ago in Latvian television. I watched all series and they were very interesting. The battles were sometimes too chaotic, but as the technology develops - I hope that Poles will make new movies similar to OiM. I heard this movie had big successes even in Ukraine.


Edited by axeman - 19-Jan-2007 at 02:42
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 02:51
Originally posted by axeman


You mean Ogniem i Mieciem movie?
 
Not only 'Ogniem i mieczem'. There are also 'Potop' (the deluge) and 'Pan Wołodyjowski' ('Sir Wołodyjowski' or 'Colonel Wołodyjowski') movies - based on the first 2 books of Sienkiewicz trilogy.
 
Originally posted by axeman


It was shown couple of years ago in Latvian television. I watched all series and they were very interesting. The battles were sometimes too chaotic, but as the technology develops - I hope that Poles will make new movies similar to OiM.
 
I don't like battles in OiM too. Better battles (especially the siege of Jasna Gra monastry) are in 'Potop'.
BTW of historical movies. Some private firm in Poland has a plan to make a movie about the battle of Vienna 1683. There are talks with Mel Gibson, who might play king Jan Sobieski.
There is also an interesting plan in Russia to make a movie about Polish-Russian war 1612. AFAIK it will be in cinemas in 2008.
 
Originally posted by axeman

I heard this movie had big successes even in Ukraine.
 
AFAIK 7mln people watched the movie in Poland. But I didn't know that it was a success in Ukraine.


Edited by ataman - 19-Jan-2007 at 02:59
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 04:13
Axeman , i have this book in russian. If You OK to read it , I can give you it to read. But I think Sienkiewicz's books in russian have to be in a lot of libraries, because it was quite popular at USSR times. I  had read "The Crusaders" 10 years ago, but this year I found in my parents library "Potop" and "'Quo Vadis". Some time later I have to look for 'Pan Wołodyjowski'  , sequel of "Potop" ...
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 06:08
Originally posted by John Lenon

But I think Sienkiewicz's books in russian have to be in a lot of libraries, because it was quite popular at USSR times.
 
Sienkiewicz was popular in USSR? WOW!
I though that he was on 'the black list' Wink
BTW, do you know that Hoffman couldn't make a movie 'Ogniem i mieczem' before 1990?
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Posts: 132 		  Quote John Lenon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 07:13
Originally posted by ataman

[
Sienkiewicz was popular in USSR? WOW!
I though that he was on 'the black list' Wink
BTW, do you know that Hoffman couldn't make a movie 'Ogniem i mieczem' before 1990?
I think there are a lot of causes, that Sienkiewicz was popular in USSR :
1. Poland was one of the best friends of USSR (at least common inhabatins thinked so).
2. Problems shown in Sienkiewicz book  are problems of feodal states (from Marxists point of view LOL )
3. Topics mentioned in Sienkiewicz books not only about Poland, but also about Russian, Ukrainian, Belorussian, Lithuanian and Latvian history. They were closer to people more then stories of English. French (except Duma :-) ), etc. authors.
4. Moscow Russia was not shown  like the enemy number one (the most terrible) in his books.
5. Pan-slavic idea.
6. And the main - Sienkiewicz's books are very interesting&educational.Wink
What for movies, unfortunally I've seen none of them (hope to see).
2 weeks ago I saw a broadcast on Russia TV about Barbara Brilska and there were said, that the movie 'Pan Wołodyjowski'  was very popular in USSR.
Of course , because of political causes 'Ogniem i mieczem'  could be forbidden. It's very pity for audience. But let' hope form modern directors Wink They have a lot work to do ...
P.S. Is true , that one of my favorite childhood movies "4 tankmen&dog" is forbidden in Poland TV ?
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jan-2007 at 08:43
Originally posted by John Lenon

P.S. Is true , that one of my favorite childhood movies "4 tankmen&dog" is forbidden in Poland TV ?
 
No, it's not. But there was controversy about this movie. The last chief of public TV, supported by organisations of WWII veterans didn't want to emit this movie in public TV. It doesn't mean that it was forbided by a law. There is not censorship in Poland Smile.
Apart from public TV, we have private TVs, which are waiting for ocassion to increase audience. And if anybody wants, he can buy DVD with this movie. 
Anyway, after few months of controversy '4 tankmen and dog' will be again in public TV.
Is this movie communistic propaganda? Of course, it is. But people want to watch it (the same is with other old movies like 'Hauptman Kloss' etc.)


Edited by ataman - 19-Jan-2007 at 08:46
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 07:13
Yeah, never trust the media for historical source. Just look at some of our war-games... like earlier version of "Call of Duty". Computer American player could wipe out several Germans and their panzers with relative ease.
     
   
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Posts: 1409 		  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2007 at 15:14
Whatever happened to the German lands Sweden got after the Peace of Westphalia?
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2007 at 11:10

Originally posted by Parnell

Whatever happened to the German lands Sweden got after the Peace of Westphalia?


Bremen-Verden was lost to Hannover and parts of Pommerania to Prussia during the Great Northern war in 1719. The main remainding part of Swedish Pommerania was traded away for Norway in 1814. It temporarily became an integrated part of the realm and several famous Swedes (famous in Sweden at least...) were born there, eg the engineer Baltzar von Platen and chemish Carl von Scheele, discoverer of oxygen.
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2007 at 20:47
Originally posted by ataman

 
Sienkiewicz was popular in USSR? WOW!
 
 
But not as popular as Sapkowsi nowadays Thumbs%20Up  Sorry for the total oftop...
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 18:21
 
Link to the trailers of the recent Russian action film about the war between Peter I and Karl XII (Northern War).
 
Unfortunately not available in English yet. Disapprove
 
 


Edited by Sarmat12 - 03-Jun-2007 at 18:26
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Posts: 353 		  Quote Joinville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 00:53
Originally posted by Sarmat12



Link to the trailers of the recent Russian action film about the war between Peter I and Karl XII (Northern War).


Unfortunately not available in English yet. Disapprove




Well, as a Swede, I'm happy with it, as long as the Russians keep the historical record straight Sweden was the attacked party in the Great Nordic war.

There was a Hollywood mini-series made years ago, which made out Charles XII as a sadistic womanizing madman who aggressively attacked Russia, forcing Peter into a war of defence.

Otherwise the history of war between Sweden and Russia already has a working narrative structure from a Russian perspective:
The Hero (Peter/Russia) sets out on a course of action, faces defeat (Narva 1701), redoubles its effeorts and finally prevails after an epic struggle (Pultava).
One must not insult the future.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 01:01
Surprisingly, the movie is very ballanced. It focuses on  2 characters French aristocrate and Russian soldier and their experience in the battle of Poltava.  No party is actually complitely favored. Charles XII is depicted as an independent, charismatic leader. But it's an action movie, so the director's goal wasn't to shoot a perfect historical documentary. They mainly focused on the battle scenes.  Smile
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Posts: 1108 		  Quote ataman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 06:12

I have a TV channel with Russian military movies, so I hope to see this movie soon Smile

BTW, there is a Polish movie about those times and the war - 'Hrabina Cosel'. Nothing special, but if you like GNW, you might be interested in this movie.
 
And there is also quite new Ukrainian movie 'Mazepa' about GNW.


Edited by ataman - 04-Jun-2007 at 06:23
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 07:13
Originally posted by Sarmat12



Cool! :D I hope they'll keep to history and not follow the current  distorted mythical view that is  prevalent in leftist Sweden nowadays (ie that Charles XII was some kind of pre-modern Hitler starting wars in every direction).

It'd work from a Swedish narrator perspective also, but then more on a lower level (like following a common soldier), for example ending with the final repulsion of the Russian invasion of Sweden proper, where a bunch of retired veterans and farmer boys repelled the landing outside Stockholm. Unfortunately the political climate ensures that such a movie won't be made here.


Edited by rider - 04-Jun-2007 at 09:51
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 10:02
IMDB shows it's been released here. Know nothing about it. I suspect it will mainly be available on DVD?

IMDB for Слуга Государев

It seems the English heading is The Sovereign's Servant. Interesting. The first comment at IMDB seems to discredit the movie due to the languages and the confusing scene placement...

I couldn't however find a Wiki for the movie to know more about the release dates.
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 11:07
Originally posted by rider

IMDB shows it's been released here. Know nothing about it. I suspect it will mainly be available on DVD?

IMDB for Слуга Государев

It seems the English heading is The Sovereign's Servant. Interesting. The first comment at IMDB seems to discredit the movie due to the languages and the confusing scene placement...

I couldn't however find a Wiki for the movie to know more about the release dates.
 
Strange, the release of this movies was "an event" this February in Russia. However, I don't think it would be a problem for you to get the DVD in Estonia. Smile
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