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SOKON MEJIA View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote SOKON MEJIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kingdom of Heaven
    Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 13:05
sORRY  FOR  THE  MISTAKE  GLADIATOR  IS  NOT  IN  THIS  CATEGORY
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Emperor Barbarossa View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 13:09
Originally posted by Constantine XI

I have to disagree about most people not expecting this movie to be historically accurate. The vast majority of people with not enough motivation to actually study what happened go to see this movie and come out thinking it is a more or less accurate event in history. The vast bulk of the viewing public doesn't have the eye for scrutiny that a proper historian has, look at how people reacted after seeing Braveheart.

I definitely agree with you here. The vast, vast majority of the people who watched Braveheart thought that it was just about 100% accuracy (while it really was, at best, 50% accurate). The same goes with Kingdom of Heaven and Gladiator.

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 15:36
Sokon Mejia, I told you not to write in Caps Lock. Check your posts for it. 
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 18:05
The one scene I liked from the movie is the charge of a body of knights against a group of Muslim cav. The camera pans out into an aerial view, we see the knights in wedge formation approaching the muslims in a crescent formation; at this point, and at the signal of the leader (Orlando/Balian?) a group of the knights detaches to the left, forms its own wedge and heads for the muslim extreme right. I think it portrays correctly the battle tactics of the era.  
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2007 at 06:05
Oh, never thought of that that way. Good remark.
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Posts: 3148 		  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 00:42
Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Originally posted by Constantine XI

I have to disagree about most people not expecting this movie to be historically accurate. The vast majority of people with not enough motivation to actually study what happened go to see this movie and come out thinking it is a more or less accurate event in history. The vast bulk of the viewing public doesn't have the eye for scrutiny that a proper historian has, look at how people reacted after seeing Braveheart.

I definitely agree with you here. The vast, vast majority of the people who watched Braveheart thought that it was just about 100% accuracy (while it really was, at best, 50% accurate). The same goes with Kingdom of Heaven and Gladiator.
 
 
Ahh but two points that should be considered:
1. those that accually care if it is at all accurate will further investagate = creating intrest in history or perhaps just in a subject they knew little about. If they believe a movie to be accurate people like us correct them.
 
 
2. Movies are entertainment and it's a package deal that sells with accuracy being low on the list of priorities far behind story line , effects , big name actors etc.
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 09:09
Originally posted by Dawn

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Originally posted by Constantine XI

I have to disagree about most people not expecting this movie to be historically accurate. The vast majority of people with not enough motivation to actually study what happened go to see this movie and come out thinking it is a more or less accurate event in history. The vast bulk of the viewing public doesn't have the eye for scrutiny that a proper historian has, look at how people reacted after seeing Braveheart.
I definitely agree with you here. The vast, vast majority of the people who watched Braveheart thought that it was just about 100% accuracy (while it really was, at best, 50% accurate). The same goes with Kingdom of Heaven and Gladiator.
 
Ahh but two points that should be considered:
1. those that accually care if it is at all accurate will further investagate = creating intrest in history or perhaps just in a subject they knew little about. If they believe a movie to be accurate people like us correct them.
 
 
2. Movies are entertainment and it's a package deal that sells with accuracy being low on the list of priorities far behind story line , effects , big name actors etc.
Very true. Movies make their profits off of the average joe.  These are the people from which these movies make the most profit, not from history buffs. I mean, how could Mel Gibson in Braveheart completely ignore Andrew de Moray and portray Robert the Bruce as a traitor to his country and still make a very good profit off of the movie? Because the Average Joe does not care about how the historicla characters were portrayed, but, rather, cares about the plot of the movie.

Edited by rider - 03-Jan-2007 at 12:59

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Posts: 580 		  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 14:05
the movie "alexander" was the worst, the movie focuses on alexander's gay relation with Hephaestion rather than his succesful military career.


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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 15:32
Siege Tower, lucky for me, I got the Director's Cut, which cut that whole homosexual sex scene out. Actually, Alexander was not as bad as compared to Braveheart historically.

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 15:34
BTW, many people have also said that KoH's (Kingdom of Heaven's) Director's Cut is more precise historically... is it true? I missed my chance to buy that with a week and got the ordinary one.
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Posts: 468 		  Quote R_AK47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2007 at 16:31
Hhmmm, Kingdom of Heaven.  One of the things that iritated me the most about this movie is that the director could have made the movie far more historically accurate and still produced an entertaining movie.  Some of the inaccuracies were pointless (such as casting Guy and Reynald as Templar Knights) and served no purpose.  If Scott had produced the movie with a fair and balanced depiction of the good and bad of each side of the conflict the movie would have been much better recieved by the public.  Portraying the Knights Templar as evil was uncalled for as well.  I don't understand why he portrayed Guy of Lusignan as a villian either.  According to sources I've read, Guy was actually considered a weak man, easily influenced by others.  He certainly made some poor decisions and contributed greatly to the defeat at Hattin but I don't think that makes him the evil villian he is made out to be in the movie.
 
Originally posted by rider

BTW, many people have also said that KoH's (Kingdom of Heaven's) Director's Cut is more precise historically... is it true? I missed my chance to buy that with a week and got the ordinary one.
 
I've watched both versions.  The only real piece of historical accuracy that the director's cut adds is that Baldwin V is added to the story.  He is shown being crowned King of Jerusalem in between the death of Baldwin IV and crowning of Guy.  The directors cut does add more length to the movie.  Most of the added material seems to be at the beggining of the movie.
 


Edited by R_AK47 - 03-Jan-2007 at 16:32
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Posts: 580 		  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 12:20
well, the whole point of watching Hollywood movie is the 3-d action and the huge battle scene, it cannot be historical accurate because history just can t connect with the movie because history tend to display the story of mortals but hollywood movies are displaying the story of immortals.


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Posts: 89 		  Quote Burdokva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 14:37
Problem is, in most movies the 3D crowds and effects either are woefully exagerated or look horrible. And the anction itself is rather...meh, bland. The main hero chops war veterans left and right with his sword, after having recieved only a handfull of lessons and fake blood flies everywhere. Except on clothes and armor, which remain unusually clean.

'Alexander' and 'Gladiator' weren't as bad as 'Kingdom of Heaven' and especially 'Troy'. There was supposedly a Hannibal movie in the works with Vin Diesel starring the general. Any news on that one?
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 14:40
Originally posted by Burdokva

Problem is, in most movies the 3D crowds and effects either are woefully exagerated or look horrible. And the anction itself is rather...meh, bland. The main hero chops war veterans left and right with his sword, after having recieved only a handfull of lessons and fake blood flies everywhere. Except on clothes and armor, which remain unusually clean.

'Alexander' and 'Gladiator' weren't as bad as 'Kingdom of Heaven' and especially 'Troy'. There was supposedly a Hannibal movie in the works with Vin Diesel starring the general. Any news on that one?


Vin Diesel as Hannibal?! He would take the entire Roman army by himself!

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Emperor Barbarossa View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 15:11
Originally posted by Burdokva


'Alexander' and 'Gladiator' weren't as bad as 'Kingdom of Heaven' and especially 'Troy'. There was supposedly a Hannibal movie in the works with Vin Diesel starring the general. Any news on that one?

Hannibal the Conquerer is expected to release in 2008.

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 16:24
Well, I know something that will ANNIHILATE history. That is '300'. Perhaps someone will really think that Greeks (or Persians) used rhinoceros in battle?
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2007 at 19:29
No offense for some of you guys, but I think Kingdom of Heaven is a lot better than Alexander, which I consider it as the worst movie that I have ever seen.

Kingdom of Heaven is a good movie, but it has many misinfo... but what can you expect? The producers make movie to get some profit. They could not care less if they got some facts wrong.
     
   
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Emperor Barbarossa View Drop Down
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Jan-2007 at 20:51
Originally posted by pekau

No offense for some of you guys, but I think Kingdom of Heaven is a lot better than Alexander, which I consider it as the worst movie that I have ever seen.

Kingdom of Heaven is a good movie, but it has many misinfo... but what can you expect? The producers make movie to get some profit. They could not care less if they got some facts wrong.

I agree, Kingdom of Heaven was much better.

Originally posted by rider

Well, I know something that will ANNIHILATE history. That is '300'. Perhaps someone will really think that Greeks (or Persians) used rhinoceros in battle?

Well, I can excuse the 300 because it was based completely off of a comic book, not history. But, still, I wish they would have made it much more historical. Why does Hollywood have to pervert history for its own means, the actual history is usually better than their stupid plot anyways (see the completely idiotic romance between William Wallace and French Princess in Braveherat).

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Posts: 27 		  Quote milns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2007 at 14:19
Scene with christian host coming from desert with that golden cross was superb, and knights charging was ok also, but story about blacksmith a.k.a. the savior of Jerusalem was totaly unacceptible!
But the "best of the best" is Alexander. Especially I "liked" macedonian phalanx in jungle. The batlle advisors or director must have been a complete idiots to film that battle in jungle. Damn I was pissed off when I saw that! And the whole thing of Alexander the Gay....
    

Edited by milns - 08-Jan-2007 at 15:22
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Posts: 161 		  Quote Greek Hoplite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2007 at 14:36

As a medieval war movie it was a good one, with excellent costumes ( armors etc ) with impressive battle scenes. It was maybe not the most accurate film with the subject of crusades ( and especially the personalities of the film, their real life and actions ) but we cant condemnt for these reason the movie, and can anyone tell me which "historian" movie has historic accuracy ( in braveheart the battle of sterling took place in open field lol ). From these movies the spectators want to see some action and they dont want most of them historical accuracy.

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Edited by Greek Hoplite - 08-Jan-2007 at 14:42
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