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Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet
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Hellios View Drop Down
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet
    Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 17:25
 
Jalaleddin Rumi, 13th c. Persian poet who lived most of his life & produced his works under the Seljuk Empire.  After his death, his followers founded the Mevlevi Order, better known as the Whirling Dervishes.
 
Short (1 min) clip with English translation of poetry by Jalaloddin Rumi set to traditional instruments:
 
 
Whirling Dervishes:
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 27-Dec-2006 at 17:29
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Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 17:31
One of his poems was on the subway train 5 here in nyc not too long ago. Ive heard about him and he seems to have been a great spiritual leader and poet too.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:20
I always wondered how you can distinct ones ethnicity from that periode and region.

just curious both Persian & turks had arabfied or persian names.

So how can you tell.

Looking at pictures will tell you so much most of Ca is of Turko/persian stock.

He doesn't look like any modernday persian or someone from CA

He looks like well a Man from modernday Turkey

so how can we know



btw Saying his poems were in persian doesn't proove jack persian was the writtin language in that time. the accademic language just like Latin in europe
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:30
He was a "muslim", that's how he saw it, he wasn't into nationalism, the guy was loyal to the Seljuk State and lived in their capitol, no need for a ethno-war.    
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:33
Because he was from Balkh, and actually, he was above religion too.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:35
above religion? i'm afraid I don't follow
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:37
He said as much, I have this cool banner on my laptop, I will pst it when I'm back home, and you will see.

He is above ideology and sects.
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:41
Above religion?

He was devoutly religous and a humanist.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:43
Back to the ethno thingy it's not about him but in general I mean
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:50
Well, if you read his poems, the translations are not as powerful and they lose a lot of interpretative dimension. They ofetn have double meanings against religion, governemnt, sects and other institutions, but they are not direct enough that he could be apprehended for them.

Sa'adi and Hafez are the same in this sense.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:51
PS, forget the ethnic crap, it has already been discussed to death in another thread.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:57
Okay can you mabey link it I want to read it (liek you said don't want another flame war at least not one on my account)

"ne olursan ol yine gel" mevlana(celalatin rumi)

come it doesn't mather what you are(kind of person) still come


"Ya olduğun gibi grn, ya grndğn gibi ol " Apeare as you are or Be as you apeare.

these are the most famous quotes of him in Turkey



verry good onesThumbs Up
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Hellios View Drop Down
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 23:17
Originally posted by Zagros

Because he was from Balkh,
 
Yes, that & his native tongue indicate a Persian heritage.
 
"When the Mongols invaded Central Asia, Rumi's father set out westwards with his whole family and a group of disciples. On the road, Rumi encountered one of the most famous Persian poets, Attar, in the city of Nishapur, located in what is now the Iranian province of Khorasan. This meeting had a deep impact on the 18-year-old Rumi's thoughts, which later on became inspirations for his works."
 
"From Nishapur, they set out for Baghdad, meeting many of the scholars and Sufis of the city. From there they went to the Hejaz and performed the pilgrimage at Mecca. It was after these journeys that (most likely as a result of the invitation of Allah ud-Din Key-Qobad, ruler of Anatolia) they came to Asia Minor & finally settled in Konya (Anatolia) within the westernmost territories of Seljuk Empire."
 
The rest of the story is even more interesting. 


Edited by Hellios - 01-Jan-2007 at 13:04
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Posts: 65 		  Quote Huncuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 08:47

Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk.He wrote Turkish and Farsi,this because of the language of science was Farsi in Seljuks-Ottomans.

 

Well,in Mongol İnvasiın,The main people of Nishabur and Semergant were Horasan Turks of Turkic Harezmshah Sultanate.WinkI think he was a Yaghma or Karayaghma(Turk tribes).

 
 
But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian.But I don't think he was.Wink


Edited by Huncuk - 28-Dec-2006 at 08:49
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 09:05

I think his race is not much important. He is effected turks and affected from Turks.(His relation with persians are none, his relation with persiann culture is just using persian langauge, but at that times(Infact until the last days of ottomans), every Turks used persian as a literature langauge.) He was absolutely a poet of Turkish culture.

Infact If there were not Turks, Persians dont even know who is Mevlana.

I should also add, He is far from becoming above religion. Infact persians begin to  interest with Mevlana newly. They just ignored him because of his sunni background. So trying to show mevlana as a part of persian literature is simply comic.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 09:08
Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk

But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian.


Make up your mind.

Nei-Shapur was a city founded by Persians, so it is hardly surprising there were also Persians there, lol.

NO more on his ethnicity! I mean it.
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Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 12:40
Yes Rumi was indeed "above" religion, tradition and customs that most humans or other spiritual leaders fashion their whole lives on. To me he is in the same scale as other great leaders such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi etc.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 13:03
Who cares what ethnicity he was, he wrote inspirational and influential works that spread throughout the Islamic world from India to the Balkans under the Ottomans.
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 02:38
Yes Rumi was indeed "above" religion, tradition and customs that most humans or other spiritual leaders fashion their whole lives on. To me he is in the same scale as other great leaders such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi etc.
 
You can call his works above religion(I will even discuss this.), but absolutely not himself.
 
His followers are called as dervish(a religious tittle.) Sema is a religious praying. He love human beings not because they are human, but because they are created by God. For him, core of love is to love God.All other type of love(loving humans, loving wifes ext.) comes from God.(Infact one of his story, he talk satan love to God.)
 
If this is not a religous, I dont know what is religious too. I should also add, generally known about Mevlana is his famous words, but most of his stories are related with religion, love, satan and God.
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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 08:56
Originally posted by Mortaza

I should also add, He is far from becoming above religion. Infact persians begin to  interest with Mevlana newly. They just ignored him because of his sunni background. So trying to show mevlana as a part of persian literature is simply comic.


100% agree with bolded text.
Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
[IMG">http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg">
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