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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Topic: Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 07:24 |
Mevlana's best piece IMHO;
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come! Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come! Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times, Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are." |
You know nothing about Molana Rumi, if you don't read his original poems in Persian language.
Baza, baza, har anke hasti, baza Gar kafar o gabr o bot parasti, baza In dar gah ma dar gah numidi nist Sad bar agar tobe shekasti, baza
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Maziar
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Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 20:01 |
In all encyclopedies and by all scholars he is considered as Iranian. This is the only fact i will pay attention, so i will ignore all what the other non scholar claim here.
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shinai
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Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 18:23 |
So Murtaza what's the point? You wanna say he was Turkic? maybe, who knows? but can you really enjoy his original works? Even his Turkic poets were in old style with lots of persian and Arabic words.
Shams e Tabrizi and Attar were persians and and they had the biggest effects in Mevlana, at that time Iran was a sunni country, please do not forget that Shie Islam is Introduced to Persians by Anatolian Turks.
maybe he knew that there would be this kind of problems that he mentioned that an Asik person does ot belong to any nations or religions.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 15:35 |
Do you care to provide some evidence that Iranians didn't like him until recently because he was Sunni? That is the first time I have heard this, and at the time of Molana, Iran was majority Sunni ...
Easy, you dont know anything about it.
Infact you dont know, his most famous words are Infact not wroten by him, but a persian.
Again, If you seach persian and turkish interest about mevlana, you can see who is interested with him.
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
These are not wroten by mevlana.
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Huncuk
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Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 04:20 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk
But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian. |
Make up your mind.
Nei-Shapur was a city founded by Persians, so it is hardly surprising there were also Persians there, lol.
NO more on his ethnicity! I mean it. |
Qaraqurum made by Turks,but in Ghengisid time there were only a few Turks.
Understood?
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malizai_
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Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 19:38 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
Islam is a humanist religion. |
Bulldog
You are right to state that humanism is not alien to islam but there is a huge difference between islamic humanism(A form of religious humansim) and western humanism(Darwinian+Materialism).
Islamic humanism=God is ultimate legislator
Western humanism=Man is ultimate legislator
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 02:25 |
Mevlana's best piece IMHO;
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
And his mausoleum in Konya is a popular touristic attraction, while Mevlana, among another poet, Yunus Emre is extremely popular among Turks and has a permanent place in the Turkish culture.
Originally posted by Maziar
It's a pitty, this is a nice thread and again ruined by Ultranationalists. |
Do you realize this post is uncordial and provoking rather than peaceful?
Originally posted by Feanor
According to Islam, all human beings are slaves of the God. |
The word slave as we use in our ordinary life and the word kul differ from each other. Just because people are kul for God doesn't mean Islam cannot be a humanistic religion...One doesn't need to be atheist or agnostic to be humanist...
Edited by Kapikulu - 30-Dec-2006 at 02:34
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Maziar
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Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 00:55 |
It's a pitty, this is a nice thread and again ruined by Ultranationalists. so people enough with this stuff and please back to topic. I like his poems very much specially this one. Our
death is our wedding with eternity.
What is the secret? "God is One."
The sunlight splits when entering the windows of the house.
This multiplicity exists in the cluster of grapes;
It is not in the juice made from the grapes.
For he who is living in the Light of God,
The death of the carnal soul is a blessing.
Regarding him, say neither bad nor good,
For he is gone beyond the good and the bad.
Fix your eyes on God and do not talk about what is invisible,
So that he may place another look in your eyes.
It is in the vision of the physical eyes
That no invisible or secret thing exists.
But when the eye is turned toward the Light of God
What thing could remain hidden under such a Light?
Although all lights emanate from the Divine Light
Don't call all these lights "the Light of God";
It is the eternal light which is the Light of God,
The ephemeral light is an attribute of the body and the flesh.
...Oh God who gives the grace of vision!
The bird of vision is flying towards You with the wings of desire.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 20:08 |
Mortaza does have a strong point.
Anyway ethnicity is perceptive, he was what ever he says he was, as he didn't actually say what he was being a humanist to him it didn't matter we'll never really know. If we ask his descendants today he and they are Turks but that is their view, we wrote alot in Persian so to some Persian he is Persian, he was in the capitol of Seljuks so to them he was probobly a Seljuk.
What-ever anybody says the other side will take as a provocation so its best just to state what we know, Mevlana Seljuk Poet.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 18:24 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.
You said this, than just after this you talkedabout ethnicty problem.
By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?
when you banned this topic, how can I object you.
I think we can easly see who interest with mevlana. Using google would help usmuch.
1.630.000 result.
69.000 result.
Also, I should add, not all of mevlana work is persian, He wroten, persian, Turkish and even greek langauges.
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No genius, his literature isn't his ethnicity. And I was referring to how it should be spellt, if you could read how it is wrtten, you would understand.
Do you care to provide some evidence that Iranians didn't like him until recently because he was Sunni? That is the first time I have heard this, and at the time of Molana, Iran was majority Sunni ...
Edited by Zagros - 29-Dec-2006 at 18:38
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Lmprs
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 17:20 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
Islam is a humanist religion. |
According to Islam, all human beings are slaves of the God.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:56 |
This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.
You said this, than just after this you talked about ethnicty problem.
By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?
when you banned this topic, how can I object you.
I think we can easly see who interest with mevlana. Using google would help us much.
1.630.000 result.
69.000 result.
Also, I should add, not all of mevlana work is persian, He wroten, persian, Turkish and even greek langauges.
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:45 |
Originally posted by Feanor
I don't want to labeled as a nationalist, but I have to say it: Rumi and all his works belong to Turkish culture.
Originally posted by Bulldog
He was devoutly religous and a humanist. |
How's that possible?
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Part of Seljuq culture, yes, but not Turkish. Just like Shah Abass's Turkish poems can be considered Safavid/Iranian/Azari/Turkish but not Persian.
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Zagros
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:36 |
Mortaza, what did I say? If you want to make ethnic comments you can find the specific thread that discusses his ethnicity.
This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.
By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?
Edited by Zagros - 29-Dec-2006 at 09:36
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DayI
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:27 |
anyway i opend a thread about tariqa's in here, dervishes arent they a tarikat too?
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Bulldog
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:20 |
Islam is a humanist religion.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Lmprs
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:08 |
I don't want to labeled as a nationalist, but I have to say it: Rumi and all his works belong to Turkish culture.
Originally posted by Bulldog
He was devoutly religous and a humanist. |
How's that possible?
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DayI
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 08:56 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
I should also add, He is far from becoming above religion. Infact persians begin to interest with Mevlana newly. They just ignored him because of his sunni background. So trying to show mevlana as a part of persian literature is simply comic. |
100% agree with bolded text.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 02:38 |
Yes Rumi was indeed "above" religion, tradition and customs that most humans or other spiritual leaders fashion their whole lives on. To me he is in the same scale as other great leaders such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi etc.
You can call his works above religion(I will even discuss this.), but absolutely not himself.
His followers are called as dervish(a religious tittle.) Sema is a religious praying. He love human beings not because they are human, but because they are created by God. For him, core of love is to love God.All other type of love(loving humans, loving wifes ext.) comes from God.(Infact one of his story, he talk satan love to God.)
If this is not a religous, I dont know what is religious too. I should also add, generally known about Mevlana is his famous words, but most of his stories are related with religion, love, satan and God.
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 13:03 |
Who cares what ethnicity he was, he wrote inspirational and influential works that spread throughout the Islamic world from India to the Balkans under the Ottomans.
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