The modern Greek military

Originally posted by Cryptic Originally posted by xristar   -Fro the 4 U-214 submarines, the one (Papanikolis) will not be accepted into Greek service, while the rest three will. Greece will build a new U-214 in Papanikolis' place, while the german shipyard are free to sell Papanikolis to whomever they want. That has got to be embarassing  for highly rated German technology companies. I wonder if the rejected submarine will be offered to Pakistan or Israel as part of their submarine purchase contracts. Even then, how does one unload a submarine that was rejected by a previous customer (except at a huge loss)?

There has been a long debate on Papanikolis (the prototype U-214), because Greece found it did not conform with the standards that the company siad it did (mainly its stability). The german company fixed it, but then still Greece refused to accept it, causing quite some frustration to the germans. For what it's worth, the greek Chief of Navy admitted that as it is now, Papanikolis is within the standards set, but Greece prefers to build a new one.
The original design was indeed faulty, though I don't think that's so surprising, even for the germans. Every new weapon has issues at first.

I think I have ben asked this question before. Yes, Greece had decided to buy 112,500 G36 rifles back in 2005(?) but the deal was never closed. Afterwards in the 5 year armaments plan the fund for the the new rifle was postponed for the second phase (after 2010). Which means that for now nothing can be expected. Nonetheless, there is great scepticism on the rifle and more on the calibre (5,56mm). American companies have developed new calibres (6,5mm and 6,8mm) which have much greater performance, and will propably be adopted by NATO in the future. So, buying a rifle in 5,56 now may not be wise.

Has been some time since I last posted here, so I'll try to sum up what happened so far (not much really):
-The PzH2000 and M109A3GE2 deal seems to continue well, as the preliminary agreement was signed some time ago by the defence mininster
-Greece canceled the competition for a naval cooperation aircraft, because only two companies made offers, and only one was quilifiable. For the time Greece uses the one operational P-3 left and one adapted C-130 (which belongs to the airforce) for the role. (That's bad news if you didn't understan it)
-The BMP-3 deal has stuck. No news from there
-An interesting piece of news reached the press. Supposedly, the coucil of the navy decided to increase the number of frigates to 16 in the future, because the current (14) are not enough.
-The AH-64 Apache are being eventually accepted into service.
-Fro the 4 U-214 submarines, the one (Papanikolis) will not be accepted into Greek service, while the rest three will. Greece will build a new U-214 in Papanikolis' place, while the german shipyard are free to sell Papanikolis to whomever they want.

That's what I remember, perhaps I'm forgetting something.

EDIT:
I did forget two things: 1) One F-16 Block 50 was lost, because a bird flew into the engine. The pilot ejected from the plane safely, but the plane crashed, some km south of Ioannina.
2)All M-60A3 have now been retired, and put into long term storage. They were the last american tanks in service in mainland Greece (some 400 M-48 remain in service in the aegean islands and cyprus)

 


Edited by xristar - 05-Jun-2009 at 18:26

Originally posted by xristar Hmm. according to defencenet.gr, we decided to purchase an additional 24 PzH 2000 new. Together with the 12 used from Germany, that's 36 more (we already got 24).Interesting nonetheless, hope that's true. The PzH 2000 has proven to a magnificent piece of equipment. If you take in account the 190+ M109A2G2 we will buy , that means our aritllery will be totally reformed and modernized in the future (that is very essential, as Turkey is currently building on her own some 300 Firtina K9 guns)

I hope that is true. One of my favorite pieces in their army. This thing is the leading howitzer and i never thought 24 would make much of a difference. I wondered if they were going to double that number (and then once more) but looks like their practically there. Building these up with a hardened Command and Control + MLRS should do the trick.

The K9 would be a formidable weapon, the M109 derivatives are not going to 100% match it, the PzH 2000 will. The Turks will be able to produce those in big numbers and they are not very expensive for what they get so, the artillery side of things have to be upgraded for Greece.

Greece also has the Swedish ARTillery HUnting Radar (AURTHUR) which helps cope agianst superior numbers.

http://www.army.cz/scripts/detail.php?id=6667

Ericsson
saab

www.army-technology.com/contractors/surveillance/saab/
www.defense-update.com/newscast/1206/news/191206_arthur.htm


Edited by Leonidas - 20-Dec-2008 at 05:44

A hard man, but he was the right person at the right time. No one else could of simply taken that diplomatic pressure. Rip the Annan plan but R.I.P Papadopoulos.

We lost an AH-64 Apache to accident, during a training exercise. 
We don't know the fate of the pilots, we hope for the best, but predictions are pessimistic, as the helicopter exploded massively and caused a big fire, which is being put out right now.

EDIT: The pilots were found both, burnt and dead, strapped with their seatbelts.
The helicopter seems to have hit the ground during a night exercise. It was full of ammunition and fuel, making the job of the firefighters very difficult, as it countinued burning and exploding long after the crash.


Edited by xristar - 06-Nov-2008 at 21:25

Originally posted by xristar Originally posted by Leonidas hey what this im hearing 30 more f-16's no new trainer jets? bloody hell,  get the trainers. buckeyes are museum pieces. They say 20 more NH-90's which is good the helicopter force needs to be updated and rationalized 30 more F16? No The trainer programme is not discussed now. It has been postponed. The gap is partially filled with A-7 retiring from active service. 20 more NH-90s? We haven't even received the first 20! But still, the next to be purchased will indeed propably be Nh-90.

my mistake i misread this. The problem is they are not planning new jets at all. or it seems that way. they need the EF and IMO  one standardized F16 block across that  fleet. Maritime patrol craft is a must have as are those trainers. and yes NH90

Why they are getting more frigates is beyond me, 4 more subs will be enough for the time being.

Greece Alters Its Defense Spending Priorities, Plans

20 transport helicopters (likely to be more NH90s), 6 frigates (rumored to be the French-Italian FREMM design) 5 maritime patrol aircraft 400 armored troop transport vehicles (Contract issued, Russian BMP-3s won)

Edited by Leonidas - 23-Oct-2008 at 12:41

hey what this im hearing 30 more f-16's no new trainer jets? bloody hell,  get the trainers.

buckeyes are museum pieces. They say 20 more NH-90's which is good the helicopter force needs to be updated and rationalized

Originally posted by Cryptic Originally posted by xristar An interesting piece of news: it has been decided that the submarines of the navy will be increased to 12, from the original plan for 10 (currently we have 8 submarines).    Yikes, due to their incredible complexity, each submarine must be manned by two crews (crews rotate between continous training, rest and actually operating the submarine).  That means that Greece needs 840 men with marketable high technology skills in submarines alone.  That does not include hundreds of others doing depot level maintenance etc. .   Do Greek conscripts with appropriate skills serve on submarines?  If not, how is the Greek navy going to attract and keep these people with competition from the European Union private sector?

Originally posted by xristar An interesting piece of news: it has been decided that the submarines of the navy will be increased to 12, from the original plan for 10 (currently we have 8 submarines).

Edited by Cryptic - 02-Oct-2008 at 00:54