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Largest Naval Engagements

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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Largest Naval Engagements
    Posted: 01-Dec-2006 at 22:28
I was under the impression that the Spanish armada was crushed yet that wasnt the case because they lost a minimal amount of men an a few ships....I guess it broke their spirit..

yet what were some large engagements, with lots of men killed an lots of ships sunk. what are the important naval engagements during the imperial era ??


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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 08:01
Not sure what the largest was, but Jutland is a good place to start looking.
 
Also Lissa was pretty large, another Tsushima.
 
 
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  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 09:24
Early Modern? Surelly Lepanto
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 13:45
Originally posted by think



yet what were some large engagements, with lots of men killed an lots of ships sunk.



The two biggest of the ancient world would probably have to be:

The Battle of Salamis; fought in 480BC between the Greeks and Persian in the Bay of Salamis, Greece (Part of Persian Wars). It is believed that a mere 371 Greek ships (many triremes) defeated a force of 1,271 Persian ships (max.). Total = 1,642 ships and an estimated 200,00 men (sailors, oarsmen and military personnel), while over 200 Persian ships were lost, only 40 of the Greek's were sunk.
The Battle of Cape Economus; fought in 256BC between Carthage and Rome off the coast of Sicily(Part of First Punic War). Carthage could boast about 350 ships while the Romans had 330. Total = 680 ships and roughly 200,000 personnel altogether. The result was a Roman Victory, sinking/capturing 95 Carthaginian Warships while only losing 24 of their own.  

Note: At this time in history records were not 100% accurate or reliable. Some figures were exaggerated so it is not possible to get an exact figure of the ships or casualties. Herodotus was particularly renowned for exaggerating Persian forces size and decreasing the size of the Greek Force. Bias was omnipresent.

Originally posted by think



what are the important naval engagements during the imperial era ??



Big naval engagement would have to be:

The Battle of Leyte Gulf; fought between an allied force of Americans and Australians against Japan in 1944, off the coast of the Phillipines (Part of Pacific war in WW2). Japanese: 9 Battle Ships, 4 Aircraft Carriers, 19 Cruisers, 34 Destroyers, 200 Planes plus many other smaller boats/watercraft.  Allies: 17 Aircraft Carriers, 12 Battle Ships, 24 Cruisers, 141 Destroyers, 1500 Planes and many other smaller escort boats/ships. The outcome was a decisive victory for the Allies. 10,000 Japanese died along with all 4 aircraft carriers, 3 battleships, 8 cruisers and 12 destroyers being sunk. The Allies only lost 3500 men, 1 of their Aircraft carriers, 2 of their escort Carries, and 3 Destroyers/Escorts. Largest Naval Battle of all time in terms of sheer battle area, tonnage of ships and craft involved.

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  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 15:15
Another important navy engagement in Imperial Era could be Russo-Japanese War. Japan and Imperial Russia fought for the control of Manjuria and Korea. Imperial Russia, noticing that the Baltic and Dardanelles are going to be hard for Russian army to get. Russia needs ice-free port to start some serious trades for economical reform. What is left for Russia is north of China and Korea. And we all know what how this issue ended up. Japanese General Togo used modern tactic to sink the entire Baltic Fleet in Port Author with almost no deads for Japanese army.
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  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 19:47
The Battle of Leyte Gulf


Interesting. ive never heard about this battle, perhaps it also goes by another name.

Japanese General Togo used modern tactic to sink the entire Baltic Fleet in Port Author with almost no deads for Japanese army.


Yeh i know that battle. Someone posted a topic on how to get to battle the Japanese was a battle itself for the Russians going a vast distance to just get defeated.


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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2006 at 20:58
That's because it's not always listed as a single battle in many books. Rather as several seperate smaller battles.
 
It was a series of actions rather than just one and not all were naval. Some were sub attacks and other air engagements.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2006 at 09:54
Tsushima was amazing, a topic was started some time ago about it (by me, I think).

Leyte Gulf was wonderful too...

But wouldn't one of these be Nagato?... or whatever the battle in the midst of the 19th century between Turks and Europeans was called. I can never remember that name.


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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 03:21
Navarino ?

Not that big - only ten ships of the line involved, though there was a large number of smaller ships
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2006 at 07:49
Well, for the pre-Imperial era Trafalgar would be an obvious example. 27 British ships of the line  manned with 21000 vs 33 French and Spanish with 26000 men. The allied lost 22 ships and 14,000 men dead wounded or captured.
 
For the largest battles in the Baltic,
 
There was a few large engagements in the Baltic featuring Danish, Dutch and the Swedish navies, although I believe none had very high numbers of ships lost.
 
Towards the end of the early modern era there was also a few large engagements between the Russian and Swedish navies. In July 1790 the entire Swedish navy was trapped in the bay of Viborg. 21 ships of the line, 13 frigates, 200 galleys, archipelago frigates and other types manned with manned with 30,000 men were blockaded by the Russian fleet with 50 ships and frigates and 80 galleys, frigates and other archipelago ships with 25,000 men. The Swedes attempted and succeeded with a breakthrough, with a butcher's bill of 5 ships, 2 frigates and 4,000 men dead. Nowadays both sides seems to consider it a victory, although at the time it was a major strategical victory for the Swedes, as the breakthrough saved the navy from starvation and capture. The immidiate follow-up of the Gauntlet at Viborg was the regular battle of Svensksund between the archipelago fleets. The Swedish side consisted of 195 ships with 12,500 men and the Russian of 32 larger ships and 206 smaller and 14,000 men. The battle ended with 61 Russian ships captured or sunk with 10,000 dead, wounded or captured. The Swedes lost 6 galleys and 700 men.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 05-Dec-2006 at 07:51
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 03:58
Battle of Preveza, between Ottomans and European(Italian&Spanish) Armada, around 300 ships engaged in the fight, ending with the Ottomans'& Barbaros Khaireddin Pasha's victory...
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 04:39
Lepanto battle involved almost 500 ships ... Guess who did win?
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 06:26
The thing about just counting ships is that it ignores their size.

Counting guns is better; better even than counting men because frequently counts of men include soldiers not engaged in the battle.

Counting weight of shot would be even better than counting guns, actually. But more work.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 07:12
Well, another example would be Hankoniemi and Midway..
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 10:00
Originally posted by Leonardo

Lepanto battle involved almost 500 ships ... Guess who did win?
 
It is written before, and this is being written here in response to my post, which doesn't have any intention but to make an addition to list; is there something biting you as you use this kind of a manner?


Edited by Kapikulu - 30-Dec-2006 at 10:02
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 10:08
Originally posted by rider

Well, another example would be Hankoniemi and Midway..
 
The battle of Hankoniemi aka the battle of Gangut (English/Russian, from Swedish Hang udd) aka Rilax/Rilahti in Swedish/Finnish wasn't that big though. On the Swedish side there was the gun barge Elefant supported by 6 galleys. The Russians had 105 although there were no room for them to take part at the same time. It is remembered mainly because it was the first Russian naval victory over Sweden.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 12:04
For northern areas, Hankoniemi was a large battle
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 12:42
Originally posted by rider

For northern areas, Hankoniemi was a large battle
 
Not really. At Gangut (name used in English literature, I assumed you mean that battle. Hankoniemi is used in Estonia?) the Swedish forces was just a small squadroon, consisting of  1 gun barge, 7 galleys, total 116 guns and 941 men. The Russians did have a huge superioty, but I don't really think it can be called a large fleet battle.
 
Compare for example:
 Svenksund, Swedish side 195 vessels, 1000 guns and 12 500 men, Russian 238 vessels, 1200 guns and 14 000 men.
 
Hogland,
Sweden, 15 ships, 7 frigates. 1180 guns
Russia, 17 ships, 7 frigates. 1236 guns
 
land
Sweden, 26 ships, 10 frigates,  1648 guns.
Denmark/Netherlands, 25 ships, 12 frigates. 1682 guns
 
Viborg gauntlet
Sweden, 21 ships, 400 other vessels, 3000 guns, 30 000 men
Russia, 50 ships & frigates, 72 galleys 2718 guns, 21 000 men
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 13:58
It is not of such a large scale in terms of casualties, but another fine example is Oran...
 
Where the British navy have sunk several French destroyers&battleships in Mers-el-Kebir.
 
Midway is one other example, especially of carrier warfare.
 
Raids of WW I as well, e.g. Zeebrugge Raid.
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 16:13
Hmmh. I must agree then although I understood that the whole fleet of Swedes was entrapped at Hankoniemi (yep, used in Estonia) and the Russians enclosed on them destructively with even more ships..
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