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History of animals

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  Quote jlaughs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: History of animals
    Posted: 04-Sep-2018 at 04:21
I agree with the sentiments expressed in the original post. Humans have killed, tortured, and consumed animals without impunity. It is saddening, if not utterly cruel, to say the least. Historiography also does not account for the treatment of animals, which is troubling.

In Beatrice and Virgil, Yann Martel has attempted to relate the Holocaust via a depiction of animal cruelty. Reviewers have torn him apart because they think it is cheap and offensive to compare the Holocaust with animal cruelty. That says it all, if you ask me. Why must we be offended because we're compared to animals? They are living beings , too.
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  Quote IanZonja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2018 at 05:35
European Lion (Panthera leo europaea) - Distributed in Southern Europe from the Iberia through to Liguria, Southern (Cisalpine) Gaul, as well as the Italian Peninsula. The full extent of it's range spread through the Balkans, into Greece and Macedonia, and Thrace. The European Lion was a significant part of Roman, Greek, Macedonian and Balkan Culture and Religion because of the power and majesty it symbolised. However, as a part of sport and hunting, the European Lion gradually diminished and became extinct around 1000AD. It was also used in Roman Gladiatorial arenas. There are numerous accounts of these beasts, including those by Herodotus and Aristotle.
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  Quote jaribecker123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2017 at 06:35
Really glad to know about the history of these animals
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  Quote okamido Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2011 at 02:43
Here is an interesting article on the origin of polar bears. Apparently they have been traced to Ireland.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2011 at 15:01
I don't know about the rest of North America, but the Northest had big cats as recent as 5,000 ybp.  Saber toothed cats died out here approx. 8-9,000 ybp.  I've found a carving that depicts a saber toothed cat of some kind.  That would mean that they were still here during the late Paleo/
 early Archaic.  There is also evidence for an extinct form of bison and also the short faced bear.
 
BTW- Germany had their own specie of lion, or rather west southern Europe.  Check me on this, but I believe the UK also had big cats up until rather recent.  Aamof, there are several places in Britain where they believe there are still big cats living.  Noth America still has big cats but their not as big as a lion.  New England still has Mountain lions, [Cougars} as does West Virginia and several other states in that region.  Florida has the Florida Panther.  These aren't as big as an African lion, the panther averages 100-150 lbs, still a good sized animal.  Note- "the authorities" state that there are less than 200 breeding animals in Florida and Georgia.  Better informed sources place breeding animals at 1000 plus.[Sources such as the Florida Highway Patrol and local Fish and Wildlife officers]   
 
 


Edited by red clay - 08-Jul-2011 at 15:16
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  Quote stella20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2011 at 10:02
You have told rather interesting facts...And you did the right thing to post this information here...
strikes me the fact that Lions lived in the middle east and Europe untill the 3rd century AD. The European lions are thought to have been a little bigger in size than the African lions and were extinct largely because of the huntings of the Roman empire. As you know Romans used lions for amusement and made them fight with gladiators.
I think lions live only in Africa and they are bigger than whenever else.
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  Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2009 at 05:06
For me the distribution of animals and the continental drift is very interesting. If we see that e.g. primates evolved in North america or Europe, how did they come to Africa? Or why do we have Ant-eaters in Germany allthough they evolved, as far as we know, in South America? And there are much more questions.
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  Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2009 at 22:07
Originally posted by Charidemus


The Australian Megafauna were pretty amazing.
the giant wombat, Diprotodon, was as big as a rhino, and may have gone extinct due to over hunting by the Aboriginals.
The Short Faced Kangaroo was pretty crazy, too. it only had one toe, and was massive!
its thought that these ancient creatures sparked the bunyip legends.
 
Yes some of the ancient Australian animals were rather peculiar:
 
 
Palorchestes
 
Palorchestes
 
Painting by Frank Knight
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  Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2009 at 01:54
Originally posted by Hellios

We have these cougars in Canada, along with bobcats (lynx rufus) and Canadian lynx (lynx canadensis).
 
In Sweden we have four big carnivores:
 
The Brown Bear (Ursus arctos)
 
 
The Lynx (Lynx lynx)
 
 
Varg
The Wolf (Canis lupus)
 
 
The Wolverine (Gulo gulo)
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  Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2009 at 01:40
Originally posted by Act of Oblivion


...I am not sure what others will think, but i have a fondness for pigs!!!...  
 
There was a time when pigs were big:
 
 
Dinohyus (Daeodon) 25 - 18 million years ago
 
 
 
 
 
Archaeotherium 34 to 25 million years ago
 
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  Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-May-2009 at 01:29
Originally posted by Adalwolf


Have you ever tried a buffalo burger? Its a hamburger with buffalo meat instead of cow meat, and they taste soooooo good! I want to try to find buffalo steak. I bet it tastes amazing...
 
Here is an instruction of how to make spagetti with buffalo meat:
 
 
Or lasagna with buffalo meat:
 
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2009 at 08:21
Thanks for your posts Charidemus! It's great that the silence has been broken...it was great discussion in this thread. We've lost some of the major contributors like Red Clay and Hellios unfortunately. I will respond to your posts as soon as I have a free block of time.
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  Quote Charidemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2009 at 06:52
I forgot about this one... The Sad story of the quagga, a sub-species of zebra that had a brown body and stripy neck and head.
they lived near the cape in south africa, and they began to be threatened during the boer war. victorian hunters quickly became interested... and
they soon went extinct.
recently, attempts have been made to bring the quagga back by breeding horses and zebras, and they managed to create an identical zebra to the quagga. sadly, the real quagga, complete with it's unique quagga DNA is gone forever. Cry   or has it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quagga




Another magnificent animal is the rare and mysterious giraffe relative, the Okapi...



Big smile

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  Quote Charidemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2009 at 06:46
i have finally ended the 2 year silence? hurrah for that!

PS: sorry about so many consecutive posts


Edited by Charidemus - 05-Jan-2009 at 06:57
''My Patience it now at an end'' Adolf hitler
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  Quote Charidemus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2009 at 06:18
What about the Passenger Pigeon of the 19th century? they were shot to pieces by north american hunters. they migrated in absolutely HUGE flocks! surprising yet so unsurprising that those hunters just kept on shooting them down. the last pigeons died in 1914

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_pigeon

the great auk,. ''penguin of the north'' was like a massive puffin, with a spectacular glossy blue feathers and nice beak. the industrial shipping of the Atlantic ocean soon started hunting them, and before long they died out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_auk

and lets not forget about the classic story of the dodo as well.
it seems to me that birds have suffered the most in the last 500 years.

The Australian Megafauna were pretty amazing.
the giant wombat, Diprotodon, was as big as a rhino, and may have gone extinct due to over hunting by the Aboriginals.
The Short Faced Kangaroo was pretty crazy, too. it only had one toe, and was massive!
its thought that these ancient creatures sparked the bunyip legends.

Originally posted by Hellios

 
Grizzlies make great moms, but not great dads.  Moms keep the cubs aways from dad usually.
 
Which animals make the best dads?  I know some "dads" do 'stick around' and some actually do 'more' work than the moms, if that's possible.



Rheas, Ostriches and Emus are all Great dads!
the fathers have to do everything. they take care of the chicks until they are ready leave the nest. The Mothers are rather promiscuous and leave quickly!




''My Patience it now at an end'' Adolf hitler
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2009 at 05:13
Though inactive for the past 2 years or so, this thread is integral to the Natural History Forum.

Stickied. Smile
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  Quote LilLou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 23:22
yea im with u knights this is a good topic.
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 14:17
Ah I see this has been moved to Natural History, hopefully we can get it back up and running again Approve
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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 00:07
Originally posted by Donasin





This is Oliver. He was once thought to be a hybrid of a human and chimpanzee. His face features are different than many chimps, he seemed to enjoy the company of humans more than chimps, he was never trained to do so but he would do small tasks for this owners when asked, and finally the most impressive thing that set Oliver apart is that he walked on two legs until arthritis finally made him go on all fours later in life. Oliver was a big hit in 70s and I think 80s. After his days in the spotlight Oliver went to a animal testing facility until he was rescued by a long time friend and sent to an animal shelter in Texas where he still lives happily today.

Although genetic testing showed him as a chimpanzee his genes are different than the average chimp which leads some people to speculate that he is a mutant.  Everyone that has owned  Oliver in his lifetime says that he is more than a chimp and that he is something special.



To begin, I will state my opinion: 'Oliver' is neither a mutant nor a human-chimp hybrid.
There are various reasons which explain his physiology and unusual behaviours.

Originally posted by Lepidodendron


Looks like a bonobo to me. They tend to look more human.

Bonobos (or dwarf chimpanzees) are also better at walking upright.
 
Without hair, primates look more like humans too. Maybe he had a skin disease. Or maybe his owners shaved his head to make him look more human. On closer inspection, even the position of the hands looks rather pre-arranged, like a buddhist icon or so.


Some good plausible thoughts there actually, especially the inference about Bonobos and how they tend to walk upright. My hypothesis was that Oliver is just a very unique Bonobo, and have concluded upon that.
The Bonobo (Pan Paniscus) is a very close relative of the Chimpanzee, but also humans. It supposedly shares 99.4% of our DNA - making it more closely related to us than Gorillas! I am not going to go into evolution and common ancestry because I do not believe in it, but through general classification and observation we can see that Pan Paniscus is very similar genetically, physiologically and behaviourly to Humans and Chimpanzees.

1. Numerous studies within the Congo Basin and other Reserves on Bonobos have agreed on the fact that Bonobos walk fully upright for 25% of the time. This is more so than any other ape including the Chimpanzee. This is one reason attributed to why Oliver is just a Bonobo with some unusual characteristics and behaviours.

2. The facial characteristics of the Bonobo is much more similar to that of Homo Sapien Sapien (Humans) than the Chimpanzee's. Bonobos have a broader and higher forehead, pinkish lips and unuasally longer hair upon its head. These 3 features are alarming comparisons to humans which also tend to have pinkish lips, a broad forehead and longer hair on our heads. Bonobos have very individual faces and are easily identified by other tribe members, but by humans too. Another reason why Bonobos tend to be more physically similar to humans.

3. Other physical features of Pan Paniscus resemble that of Homo Sapien Sapien, more so than  Pan Troglodytes (Chimpanzee). The breasts of female bonobos are more prominent - though not to the extent of female humans -. The longish neck, narrow shoulders and leaner upper body resembles an average human to. Overall, a strong mirror image of a human, minus the obvious differences like hair!

4. A very strong reason as to why I thnk Oliver is a Bonobo rather than a Chimpanzee or Mutant Chimpanzee is the lack of tendancy for violence - displayed in all Bonobos and as stated about Oliver. Chimpanzees are renowned for their inter-group confrontations and even wars, as well as intra-group 'gang-bashing' and fights. This behaviour is believable to have been caused by the higher need to hunt for meat and fight for territory in the Chimps habitat (Opposite area to Bonobo). This docile and graceful nature of the Bonobo, too it's willingness to co-operate in a better fashion with humans is my major refute to the thought that Oliver is a Mutant Chimpanzee or Chimpanzee-Human hybrid.

6. Paul Raffael, in his book 'The Smart and Swinging Bonobo' states - from much experience, opinion and hearsay - that Bonobos have superior intelligence to Chimpanzees, and are more willing to capatilise upon this through human interaction, which leads me onto my final point...

7. Apes are renowned for their ability to mimic, namely the Great Apes (Chimpanzees, Orang-Utans, Gorillas, Bonobos and well, humans). Through mimicry they start trends, which can become cultures through popular acceptance - thus becoming a vital branch of ape society. Mimicry of Humans by Apes in practice is illustrated in many places around the world. The Orangs of Bornean Reserves are seen 'washing clothes' by the river in a morning, using tools like saws and hammers to cut and manipulate wooden planks, and also even taking the big step of hopping in villager's canoes and paddling out - using the oars! - into the middle of the river. This is a very risky mimic - because apes can't really swim, or hold their breath. Mimicry of Human daily behaviour is also evident in African Communities and reserves where Chimps are found using hammer and other tools to cut fruit from branches, crack open nuts, throw rocks and fruit to each other for fun and many more behaviours.

It is this ability to see a behaviour that seems intriguing or is beneficial that allows the Great apes to be so intelligent and undertake all the unusual behaviours they inhibit, espeically those in captivity like Oliver.

Oliver's behaviours can be explained by mimicry of his Human trainers or carers. His appearence is fairly generic of Bonobos but there is a slight variation which has made him look more 'human', possible due to a skin problem - as Lepidodendron suggested - or a genetic disfunction.

Nevertheless, his behaviours are interesting and unique and there is no wonder some people believed Oliver to be a 'missing link'.


- Knights -

EDIT: Here is one example of mimicry in practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkXsPJZ3vGw

Edited by Knights - 29-Dec-2006 at 00:11
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 17:09
Knights might know about this also.
 
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