northern and southern Europe

The division of culture on the European continent could be summarily explained as being due to:
a) geographical and climactic conditions that affect economy, trade, and distribution of wealth. The Mediterranean, i.e. provided a "safe", closed-waters zone that allowed trade to flourish in a degree the North never reached before 1000 AD. But it was the N. Europeans (and the Spanish and Portugese) who developed ocean-going vessels that allowed them to built transatlantic empires all over the world.
b) historic settlement patterns and migrations that laid the base for today's national/linguistic map of Europe. The Germanic tribes, i.e., settled where they did, the Magyars settled in the plain of Hungary,  etc.
c) external factors, a MAJOR factor in my oppinion. From post-900 AD onwards, NW Europe has been practically devoid of invasions, the Mongols having not reached but the eastern plains of Poland. All the blood that has been shed on the European continent from 1000 AD onwards, belongs to the inhabitants of these regions fighting in intracontinental disputes. Historically Europe was shielded by the expanse of the Russian steppe on one hand and her two extremities on the other: the Iberian peninsula and the Balkans. There, the incursions of the steppe and Islam were contained for hundreds of years, a fact that contributed in allowing N. Europe to develop UNTISTURBED FROM FOREIGN INVASION (except that of Christianity, I might add). Also, Spain and the Balkans--Malta too-- are the only two regions that were ever occupied by Islam for a good number of years. And while Spain did away with it early, the Balkans were subject well into the 20th century and their development has been affected accordingly. This is a key factor in the grudge that the south bears today: it is easy for the southern mind--especially the Balkan, especially the Greek, and especially MINE--to consider the N. Europeans as arrogant and unappreciative because they never had to deal with the muftis and aghas; I think this is what Pinguin refers to as "luck", his N. European critics please keep that in mind; and, yes, I also recognise the  seemingly incomprehensible--to the N. European mind --Balkan tendency to backstab, infight, gull, deceive, willingly ethnic cleanse and blood-bathe each other for sh*t that happened hundreds of years ago--it'd be incomprenhensible to both Belgians and the Dutch, i.e., that they should go to war today over the rebellion of the Southern Provinces in 1840(?)-- and engage in  "effete", corrupt, oriental-style politics.
On the other hand I awknoledge that NW Europe--and N. America as an extension-- took the Greco-Roman tradition of indivindualism and representative goverment  to incredible heights:  Rennaisance,  Enlightment,  French Revolution,  Newtonian science, Darwinism and the evolution of the Natural Sciences, industrial revolution and Liberalism, the Nuclear Age. Also, War and his machine, destructiveness and oppression reached new heigths as well; but this is the dual nature of everything,  light and darkness, yin and yang.

What can I say, the Celto-Germanic-Finno/Ungrian "barbarians" have learned well. Kudos to you all excluding: mass murder, colonial and imperialistic oppression, unbelievable religious narrow-mindness, classism, and the millions of dead and maimed from the 30 Years', Napoleonic, Crimean, and two World Wars.
 And we come to today's Europe, a mix of the old and the new, with regional differences and a general , shaky unity under the uncertain institution of the EU plus the added element of mass Islamic/African immigration into the heart of the continent. A volatile mix, a recipe for disaster or the ticket to the future? But that's the subject of another thread... 




Edited by konstantinius - 19-Oct-2006 at 20:13

Originally posted by Cryptic   As another poster mentioned   "Catholic and Orthodox Christianity favors a communal approach to society and ones place in it.  Protestantism is far more individualistic" - paraphrase.

Much of this communal approach is in fact a function of pure economics. For example, in Spain, the culture of which I am fairly well accustomed, young people moved out of their parents' home only in their mid-twenties. But it is not like they would have done so, if they could.

In that circumstances it is also difficult to have, for example, a girl-friend. I have never witnessed so much people doing sex in cars like in Spain. On weekends, you can see whole lanes full of cars with drawn curtains. Sounds adventurous, but this just sucks because these people just can't have sex at home.

Originally posted by Jams ..  First, the Nordic countries, except UK(not truly nordic, imho), never ever were "on top of the world". And secondly, the Nordic countries were in no way supporting Hitler in general. The Germans actually invaded them, just like they did to other countries. We would rather have liked to be left alone, I assure you. The Germans are mostly central Europe, look at a map.

Well, stop feeling hurt and start showing what you're worth. No sense moping around.

Although you seem remarkably misinformed by saying the North is not having children. You are right that they are not, but the South of Europe has even lower birthrates. In a hundred years, the population of Spain will be less than half what it is now, if present trends continue. The USA is the only member of the "First World" that has birthrates above replacement rate - 2.1% - it barely clears it.

Europe, Japan, and all the other industrialised countries of the world save the USA are headed for a population bomb. And don't deceive yourselves, your country will not be better off with fewer people. You all can say goodbye to your former economic prowess.

The cultural divide over conservative 'values' isn't between countries, but mostly between city and country. And it always has been.

Edited by gcle2003 - 20-Oct-2006 at 04:29

Originally posted by Timotheus Well, stop feeling hurt and start showing what you're worth. No sense moping around. Although you seem remarkably misinformed by saying the North is not having children. You are right that they are not, but the South of Europe has even lower birthrates. In a hundred years, the population of Spain will be less than half what it is now, if present trends continue. The USA is the only member of the "First World" that has birthrates above replacement rate - 2.1% - it barely clears it. Europe, Japan, and all the other industrialised countries of the world save the USA are headed for a population bomb. And don't deceive yourselves, your country will not be better off with fewer people. You all can say goodbye to your former economic prowess.

Originally posted by think ... When ive heard American rants they arent complaining about "spanish" people but more the Hispanics, like Mestizos.

One thing is for sure, Northeners and Southernes are different races but yeah many have interminlged with each other over the centuries

Are Slavs a different race aswell?

I know this Spanish girl who has Blonde hair an Blue eyes...

But i know this other girl who id from the South of Spain who has Dark hair, dark eyes an dark hair....Yet shes got a small nose an has got a Nordic look in the face...

Also this other Spanish girl has Pure White skin Brownish hair an really dark eyes...

If you said they were all from Spain the regular Joe would prob look confused...

Originally posted by think However, you find Mestizos of all shades. Some are, by any way you look at them, exactly like Europeans, even blonds Then they wouldnt be regarded as Mestizos if they look European.. Like i said when ive hear Anglo American rants on Mexicans, they are referring to the Mestizos. Not the Mexicans who are of European descent.. So if someone from South America looks European then they arent going to be called a Mestizo..