Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

were aryans white?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 456
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
think View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 435 		  Quote think Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: were aryans white?
    Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 21:37
Perhaps the mutation arose and it was not necessary for survival and just multiplied up..again nothing to do with sexual selection


Actually they think it may have had to do with sexual selection.
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 05:03
well i was thinking about this today, i read that sexual selection amongst humans was over such things as proportian and (facial)symmetry, which all feeds into how we judge child bearing ability and health. If these mutations occured at a time these populations moved north but hadnt been able to suppliment Vitaman D through diet, then the paler humans would of been just healthier, so....

If such looks were associated with health then sexual selection would of driven the change much quicker than pure enviromental factors, though both are infact related.

Edited by Leonidas - 25-Oct-2006 at 05:04
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 05:39
Originally posted by Attila2

Originally posted by gcle2003

And even using the word 'Caucasian' as a racial designation is absurd. 'Aryan' at least has some point, since it definitely refers to a linguistic group (which may or may not be a racial/ethnic one).
 
I refered to the non-mixed indigenous people of caucasia.got it?
 
 
You may well have done. I wasn't referring to you particularly as I recall. I was commenting on the general tendency of people to misuse the word.
 
I equally deplore the suggestion that people of similar skin colour are necessarily - or even probably - of similar race. In fact the whole concentration on skin colour irritates me immensely.
 
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 06:05
 
Originally posted by Chilbudios

Actually darker skin offers generally a better protection against strong sunlight (UV light).
 
So why would the darkest peoples inhabit areas where there is less than average sunlight? And why are the peoples in the sunniest areas not dark?
 
Originally posted by Chilbudios

The extreme darkening of the bantus could be a similar adaptation process to increase the resistance to UV.

 
'Could be' of course. But why pick out the Bantu? The Congolese for instance are just as dark. And they don't see a great deal of sunshine: in fact their rainy season is seven months as against a dry one of three months. 
 
A lot of people seem to be confusing sunshine (and hence UV) with temperature.
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 25-Oct-2006 at 06:06
Back to Top
Chilbudios View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 11-May-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1900 		  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 06:37
On the previous page I've attached an article which also gives an illustration of how a skin color map would look like solely under the influence of UV radiation (and if you look carefully you'd see that Congo is slightly more lit than other regions of Africa, Arabian Peninsula and so on; and also you may remark that many Congolese have a brownish, sometimes even brown-yellowish skin instead of black):
 
Why the actual skin color distribution is not like this (leaving aside more recent processes of metisation) you can read in the article.


Edited by Chilbudios - 25-Oct-2006 at 06:48
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 05:17
Originally posted by Chilbudios

On the previous page I've attached an article which also gives an illustration of how a skin color map would look like solely under the influence of UV radiation (and if you look carefully you'd see that Congo is slightly more lit than other regions of Africa, Arabian Peninsula and so on; and also you may remark that many Congolese have a brownish, sometimes even brown-yellowish skin instead of black):
 
Why the actual skin color distribution is not like this (leaving aside more recent processes of metisation) you can read in the article.
 
The maps just appear as broken links on my screen. I would though be interested in seeing them (or the data on which they are based). I certainly find it difficult to believe that the inhabitants of the Congo are more exposed to sunlight than those of the Arabian peninsula (ignoring clothing of course).
 
A similar situation exists with regard to body hair. It would, on the face of it, make sense if the people in colder climates had more body hair, but they don't. Or, possibly, it might, on the face of it, make sense if the populations closer to the origin had more body hair. But they don't.
 
Not that I'm knocking evolutionary theory. I'm just pointing out that it's a lot more random, and a lot less purposive, than some people seem willing to accept.
Back to Top
Chilbudios View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 11-May-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1900 		  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Oct-2006 at 05:27
Yes, I've noticed that (they appear broken in the original article, too).
The image is still visible in google's cache:
 
 
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 05:59
Originally posted by Chilbudios

Yes, I've noticed that (they appear broken in the original article, too).
The image is still visible in google's cache:
 
 
Thanks. I found the map of skin tones. It would seem obvious it correlates with average temperature, although it's a bit dodgy around the north of the Americas and of Siberia.
 
However, I couldn't see the map of sunlight distribution. And temperature and sunlight (i.e. UV radiation reaching the earth, not the cloud layer) don't correlate very well as I remember.
 
Back to Top
Chilbudios View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 11-May-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1900 		  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 06:10
About the map, the article says:
The map below (Jablonski and Chaplin 2000) depicts: Predicted shading of skin colors for indigenous humans based on the results of a linear regression model in which skin reflectance (at 685 nm) for indigenous peoples in both hemispheres was allowed to respond to annual average UVMED for both hemispheres. In other words, it shows what the regional variation of complexion would look like, if skin tone depended solely on solar ultraviolet radiation.
So it's not a map of skin tones, it is a map of how skin tones would look if UV would be the only cause. I must repeat, for a full discussion and other causes for skin color check the article.
The article itself warns:
Incidentally, the Jabloski prediction map has been widely published in the popular press (sometimes with attribution and sometimes without). It has appeared in the February 2001 Discover magazine and in the Winter 2000 California Wild magazine, and at several Internet sites. Oddly, the popular press often labels the map as showing actual skin tone distribution. California Wild said that its patterns illustrate three zones of human skin tone. Discover said that the map shows the skin colors of indigenous people across the globe. Of course, Jablonski and Chaplin would agree that it shows no such thing. It portrays prediction, not measurement.


Edited by Chilbudios - 27-Oct-2006 at 06:15
Back to Top
Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 07:10
Why do people love to hate the nazis & still continue to propound their philosophy in one way or the other ? Can't we grow up ? 
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
Back to Top
Leonidas View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 07:53
Vivek, their is nothing nazi in this discussion


Edited by Leonidas - 27-Oct-2006 at 07:53
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 09:35
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Why do people love to hate the nazis & still continue to propound their philosophy in one way or the other ? Can't we grow up ? 
 
This is a personal opinion, of course. I believe in the West many people hate Nazi METHODS. But many agree in some of theirs ideas, although nobody say it aloud anymore.
 
There are many people in the West that believes in an original pure and pristine white race that was the origin of civilization. That race was the most beautiful, intelligent and inventive the world has never known. They believe those guys were the Aryans of India, the old Babilonians, some of the Egyptians, the ancient Greeks and Romans, and the ancient Germanic peoples. They also believe that with time those people mixed with "brown" locals so they lost strenght so the civilizations declined.
 
You can find those ideas anywhere, from Mme Blavatsky to the masterpieces of Wagner, and they could also be seen in the concepts behind social darwinism, eugenesia, etc.
 
Today, with the "politically correct" censorship nobody claim those concepts anymore. But that does not stop many for continuing believing on them
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 456

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.